From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Apr 20 13:35:08 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lw0Cq-0001K1-3O for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:35:08 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lw0Cl-0001Jd-Jf for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:35:07 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d40so984280and.1 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=XCEPKO1lhd9IfFVCT3WmjeyOgX3PbPIIKv2Y5NmEsH0=; b=Q+0LdH4axdJ4aTulONIj5G/lWQ/vz+NLfpEyZT6hrrYNtOV4bvNKsyjzK6WdkvDXpq 9E+ldR7O3U9Vx0AS+X8svDiWfskV5rkkL16/MPwO0U9XVwwC6djDvaCydtep8Q1RRALw PRTKnlChpRZo73OXgL9Joi9KMrQdyHWydAk3g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=Z8CDf83PuKhEbrkHnoButyfhTCwukKJ0Sly8WNd0VNrHs0ONoqzLpaC/B9regwZz+E QT/NByvLZSPZXGmNlcZkZas72AOXEaq2X6I83n8yGBUEe+vZ+udQoK0XHyyLLenBfuZ8 LuQ4jm9ADh0U14/eaGa2FnPRURmqQGv9ifi2E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.44.4 with SMTP id r4mr4121334anr.157.1240259702287; Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090420201926.GF593@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20090420140025.GA7343@sdf.lonestar.org> <20090420201926.GF593@digitalkingdom.org> From: Danny Piccirillo Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:34:40 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: Gender neutrality? To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e640817afbf68b0468027674 X-archive-position: 15482 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: danny.piccirillo@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016e640817afbf68b0468027674 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, but in conversation people often like to say, "Did you see that girl?" instead of "Did you see that person?". Things like that. My request is that lujvo for gender identities should replace words meaning biological sex in casual conversation since it will come up. Can that happen? Does anybody else see this as something that should happen? On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 16:19, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > It hasn't come up. Unless I need to talk about whether someone > actually has a penis or vagina, I use {remna}. Or, you know, their > name. :) If it comes up in conversation for you, I suggest you > invent some lujvo. > > -Robin > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 04:12:16PM -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote: > > No, i mean words that instead of meaning that someone is a boy, it > > means that they are mentally a boy. Everyone is used to using > > words that describe what people are biologically, but we should be > > talking about gender identity unless we really do want to talk > > specifically about their biological sex. So, the terms that mean > > identify as male, female, genderqueer, etc, should always be > > preferred when talking about humans (or even bots/androids that > > are supposed to have a gender since they don't have a biological > > sex). > > > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:00, Minimiscience >wrote: > > > > > de'i li 20 pi'e 04 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Danny Piccirillo .fy. cusku zoi > > > skamyxatra. > > > > If there are terms for boy, man, girl, and woman, there are surely > terms > > > for > > > > one who identifies as masculine or feminine, or androgynous, > genderqueer, > > > etc > > > > and those are the terms i think should be preferred in common > > > conversation > > > > when talking about someone who has a gender identity (all humans). > > > .skamyxatra > > > > > > If you mean words that are suitable for individuals regardless of their > > > gender > > > identities, yes, there are words for those. "Human" is "{remna}," and > > > "person" > > > (not necessarily human) is "{prenu}." "Child" is "{verba}," > "offspring" is > > > "{panzi}," "parent" is "{rirni}," "sibling" is "{tunba}," "uncle/aunt" > is > > > "{famti}," et cetera. > > > > > > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. > > > > > > -- > > > le munje vi smaji > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or > if > > > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > > > > > > > -- > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something > other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --0016e640817afbf68b0468027674 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, but in conversation people often like to say, "Did you see that g= irl?" instead of "Did you see that person?". Things like tha= t. My request is that lujvo for gender identities should replace words mean= ing biological sex in casual conversation since it will come up. Can that h= appen? Does anybody else see this as something that should=A0happen?=A0

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 16:19, Robin Lee Pow= ell <rl= powell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
It hasn't come up. =A0Unless I need to talk about whether someone
actually has a penis or vagina, I use {remna}. =A0Or, you know, their
name. =A0:) =A0If it comes up in conversation for you, I suggest you
invent some lujvo.

-Robin

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 04:12:16PM -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
> No, i mean words that instead of meaning that someone is a boy, it
> means that they are mentally a boy. Everyone is used to using
> words that describe what people are biologically, but we should be
> talking about gender identity unless we really do want to talk
> specifically about their biological sex. So, the terms that mean
> identify as male, female, genderqueer, etc, should always be
> preferred when talking about humans (or even bots/androids that
> are supposed to have a gender since they don't have a biological > sex).
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:00, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > de'i li 20 pi'e 04 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Danny Picci= rillo .fy. cusku zoi
> > skamyxatra.
> > > If there are terms for boy, man, girl, and woman, there are = surely terms
> > for
> > > one who identifies as masculine or feminine, or androgynous,= genderqueer,
> > etc
> > > and those are the terms i think should be preferred in commo= n
> > conversation
> > > when talking about someone who has a gender identity (all hu= mans).
> > .skamyxatra
> >
> > If you mean words that are suitable for individuals regardless of= their
> > gender
> > identities, yes, there are words for those. =A0"Human" = is "{remna}," and
> > "person"
> > (not necessarily human) is "{prenu}." =A0"Child&qu= ot; is "{verba}," "offspring" is
> > "{panzi}," "parent" is "{rirni}," &= quot;sibling" is "{tunba}," "uncle/aunt" is
> > "{famti}," et cetera.
> >
> > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.
> >
> > --
> > le munje vi smaji
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
> >
> >

--
They say: =A0"The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons.&= quot;
And I'm thinking: =A0"Does it even occur to you to try for somethi= ng
other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http= ://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


To unsubscribe from this list, send= mail to lojban-list-requ= est@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


--0016e640817afbf68b0468027674-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.