From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jul 23 14:24:05 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MU5ll-0005fn-Fa for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:24:05 -0700 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.147]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MU5lg-0005es-6T for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:24:05 -0700 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 14so641808qwa.58 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:23:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Xq/ctUMUajKZVq1FkCPNKkFh9JVeXI0DTEwMQxTwG3k=; b=aTfAxiYk+gLuih/a21UfI++Af6Rt1re/ZD6fYxpAtyVnt8T9r4vuhQ/fRL/JUd8p/T FcuUCMYOoNLXlOCtXNIVguIFBgi6TkEgfT4imUAtIPngVfmyIiLHGd6TSriaaCs7AHmY FauYMwcRoVrtCfLuVwxG0OMnZQlpGiQQJn8q4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=c/fAFAn2FKeGcxWrGgAQ8/vtZwpL8WH3EDKTOR0eWal5WJZsbBma88JjSLn/2B18sJ 6z2j/j7YXga+3+6Xn0Mi9ZJh7/g7xTIyp0ZeqgOqhbT6GeIIcfyl1y6g5eVIFWeOD4mh q8iLhgBNpSXBPJ+Vu28mSK0kPkxo4RszGfEhY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.31.70 with SMTP id x6mr988162ibc.32.1248384237355; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:23:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A65A5DC.7020100@lojban.org> References: <126025.43169.qm@web50408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <425e4ac20907201631o31437b32l43c2a473ff5c9a43@mail.gmail.com> <4A65A5DC.7020100@lojban.org> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:23:57 -0400 Message-ID: <425e4ac20907231423u75cb1a61r1478a326c631575@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Philosophical differences. From: Stela Selckiku To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 15796 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: selckiku@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list mi'e la stela selckiku de'i la'o gy Tue, Jul 21, 2009 gy ti'u la'o gy 7:26 AM gy la'o gy Bob LeChevalier gy srana be zo cimjvo be'o cusku > > Bravo on the creation.  Have you defined it in jbovlaste? No I haven't-- I'm not sure how to define it. I could add a definition in Lojban like "x1 lujvo x2 x3 x4 noi ke'a cilmo pe'a x2", which is basically how I think of it, but I'm not sure that's very helpful? > You can habitually add pev to all metaphorical composed lujvo to be safe (to > make sure that there is room for a more literal lujvo if someone needs it). >  But, if you've seriously put in the thought as to whether there is a > plausible non-metaphorical meaning, and are satisfied, omit the pev. > Especially if it is a word that is finding common usage (under a Zipf's law > argument, many things can be eliminated). Yes, .ie sai, if there's any possible sense to the nonmetaphorical lujvo, I'd want to leave the "pev" in until we're sure it's a common word, but once we're sure a word is useful, we eventually end up eliding rafsi from it ruthlessly, like losing the "sel" from "selplixau". I'd say "pev" is much more elidable than "sel" on the whole, but there are still a lot of times when it should stay. That was exactly my thought process about zo cimjvo, "Well there's not really any way a lujvo can be nonmetaphorically wet, is there? So we can skip that step for this one." > taske was added because we simply couldn't be sure that it was culturally > neutral to conflate it with xagji. In retrospect I'd rather have the distinction between hunger/thirst and the more immediate and constant need for air. But perhaps once we have a lujvo for air-need that takes on its own character, we'll be able to build higher-level lujvo on it. For instance if we were used to za'e "vartcu" (vacri zei nitcu, air need) or za'e "kijytcu" (is that how you'd say that, kijno zei nitcu, oxygen need) then after a while you might be able to evoke the right feeling with a lujvo like za'e "pamvartcu" or za'e "pamkijytcu", for needing love like needing to breathe. mu'o To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.