From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jul 28 10:47:08 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MVqlY-00033t-8w for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:47:08 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f220.google.com ([209.85.217.220]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MVqlV-00033I-5S for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:47:07 -0700 Received: by gxk20 with SMTP id 20so522879gxk.10 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:46:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hla9k/CAJvlFrbd2ti7ggkjSe7LTkc2kM5WZWL3bCLo=; b=hTrBa25bSQVtVGQvdh9Icz6QxuFkAFJeGAH8hpA4EZTJb59XA8i5eiVakn9FGICtE5 zCAa3x9UOIur3atDzue5BUWtDOXnhhCPN7xgUTeJmv/W78POyoLOoxYCkjlxAjby9+ES Bt/oCGRIzEYVIHnAlJ8TuDNfWjB/7eKTsn2uM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Utkw7YhOLXaLi/G3FHJOA2NGF5wOjRBhO/HEDrIhkDALmuiFTWReuZhvNnZiFMK5Go QVyufm9DwsJdTv62bLdy6gNTKXB3VPIJnWezOXDqVhVuYQlnRN1m6pm3qp7URoKoZuUi 6FQNu/0+ssAR4tiZBscCoMu6DzqZX2UmGG2jI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.56.17 with SMTP id e17mr896422aga.42.1248803219012; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:46:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5715b9300907280903t63cd372du13da398fe2e4b7ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <200907280045.44937.phma@phma.optus.nu> <96f789a60907280533n45388b3dg4d9e7596e5c1e541@mail.gmail.com> <200907280859.09514.phma@phma.optus.nu> <96f789a60907280709h7960f3fftc2c9a5a083360ed2@mail.gmail.com> <664922.39992.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5715b9300907280903t63cd372du13da398fe2e4b7ac@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:46:55 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560907281046h181eba2bmbad07d736c9460e5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: elliptical sentences From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 15826 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > if I'm remembering correctly, under xorlo {lo} means something like "having > something to do with", with no implications of actual existence, whether it > is in the speakers mind only, or whether it _really is_ a specific instance > of whatever it is that you're talking about. As far as I understand, "lo" has always been and remains veridical, not just "something to do with". It doesn't have to be specific, it can be generic, but it is veridical, and it has no direct relation to existence. "lo xanri" for example is something imaginary, not something imaginary that also exists. It has to be imaginary, not "having something to do with imaginary". > Whereas {le} means that you have a specific thing in mind although I don't > believe it makes any truth claims about whether or not it _really is_.  So > "le gerku" would mean "I have an actual thing in mind that I'm calling 'dog' > " while "lo gerku" would mean "there is something that I'm choosing to refer > to as 'dog' ". Sounds right to me. "le" has always meant that. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.