From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 05 21:57:48 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MYv2y-0000a5-Mj for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:57:48 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f202.google.com ([209.85.212.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MYv2v-0000YV-Ov for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:57:48 -0700 Received: by vws40 with SMTP id 40so597732vws.2 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:57:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=VRNzSl2i8jV/9VQa/GryPI2OeU2encabmUvdvg0uiKM=; b=Ga0eO3hXrJwyfq3emSYCV74OHSviunp40vBkgTAfDv9KZCbRxDcpmCoULFOBNUTFsA 58dzfKZI9DQ8O7Gcy7OhW3gTuOo4wPQPOP5EDoGVPxyITWP/F/ZN2y1nPbHEv8EJ2keH Zx8xNhzJJizskiTIL6e79A2bMHqEQMnky/iPs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=o7v4hgdzAedZ9H83T7DxRg417wwP7ExapVnFb4V0k0ivV5jWLC9NZrYsajB/t8KCp2 AsLPHZSPq4CzgxIkAwKMj5cNtka2S7HkxdCc2zSYtSzNRacQLMHvv+4dMy8YlF++D4ri NTljjbhrYLUE6VEx5JK3yc9NBlSFXKzLQYQew= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.99.71 with SMTP id t7mr9476754vcn.98.1249534659378; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:57:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200908052229.24941.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <5715b9300908051153n66567fafyb8fe10bc2cfa10a7@mail.gmail.com> <118604.47821.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200908052229.24941.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:57:39 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300908052157n32e6f5eesb1c324a296240375@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Experiments in Sapir Whorf From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6475d7681be02047071f5d5 X-archive-position: 15924 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016e6475d7681be02047071f5d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yeah, but it still uses words, which english does. in order to TRUELY test SWH we would need to come up with a whole new way of communicating all-together. ;) On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 05 August 2009 16:32:57 John E Clifford wrote: > > (I'll pass over the fact that Loglan/Lojban is not well designed for the > > test, since it is not different from English in almost any possibly > > relevant way.) > > I disagree. It has no distinction between common nouns, adjectives, and > verbs; > it has space tenses similar to time tenses; it has neither accusative nor > ergative alignment, but something totally different. One point made on the > Wikipedia page is that Guugu Yimidhirr uses north and south, not front and > back, to state the relative positions of objects. This gives Yimidhirr > speakers an advantage in open terrain. Lojban has both kinds of directions > as > tenses. > > Lojban has no grammatical number. It does have an individual/mass/set > distinction, which English lacks. > > Lojban has a large set of conjunctions, including a one-syllable word for > "if > and only if", a word for "the intersection of ... and ...", and words for > joining things in sets and sequences. > > Pierre > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > -- - Luke Bergen --0016e6475d7681be02047071f5d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable yeah, but it still uses words, which english does.=A0 in order to TRUELY te= st SWH we would need to come up with a whole new way of communicating all-t= ogether.=A0 ;)

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.n= u> wrote:
On Wednesday 05 August 2009 16:32:57 John E Clifford wrot= e:
> (I'll pass over the fact that Loglan/Lojban is not well desi= gned for the
> test, since it is not different from English in almost= any possibly
> relevant way.)

I disagree. It has no distinction between = common nouns, adjectives, and verbs;
it has space tenses similar to time= tenses; it has neither accusative nor
ergative alignment, but something= totally different. One point made on the
Wikipedia page is that Guugu Yimidhirr uses north and south, not front and<= br>back, to state the relative positions of objects. This gives Yimidhirrspeakers an advantage in open terrain. Lojban has both kinds of direction= s as
tenses.

Lojban has no grammatical number. It does have an individual= /mass/set
distinction, which English lacks.

Lojban has a large se= t of conjunctions, including a one-syllable word for "if
and only i= f", a word for "the intersection of ... and ...", and words = for
joining things in sets and sequences.

Pierre


To unsubscribe from this list, send= mail to lojban-list-requ= est@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/= , or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--

- Luke Bergen
--0016e6475d7681be02047071f5d5-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.