From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 24 18:06:54 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MfkUv-0004I8-Tc for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:06:54 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MfkUt-0004Hq-3E for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:06:53 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so2239914vws.25 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:06:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LSmjUTAucL1DXYxwZ5rgMd7V7ypqP/lLMryED1711J4=; b=PY4QWnae3g8V77P3JAsCB00/rv12Cwh8g52YWvIgRHIJW7cjrQCoOk0XVv1yX4CN0J s9/+nQslGVvmaPwwcYRtYROBRWcrnupUfNp5eiZWnYJDNmQG6s4EnCj9o71uxIdPBysA IaxLrpkzWi5y1jltkfZvsyEoKdvkV5M+AX+VQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jml9l/cH6WCYEGSrtUqsQlXmtoHHE69YajYEn58Di1LBu7T6YBcOKhy6J/mIdCnIMr TfxLLEmpXu7PD3IsNYQYeRhgKooDqr3GHV/yypiW04EgEPRyiNGW4bkbDWj7PnSCqCxP 7vZ7oCZ9Ra6G869R9Vn/W30G/O/PRB2OemD/4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.78.2 with SMTP id i2mr6733997vck.44.1251162404930; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:06:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:06:44 -0400 Message-ID: <95b2fb130908241806m3944c3d3h5e51505c76e474a8@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: How many possible gismu? From: "H. Felton" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16006 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fagricipni@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:12 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 8/24/2009 19:02:46 Eastern Daylight Time, > fagricipni@gmail.com writes: > > >  What I am imagining is a future > where Lojban has a large base of users, and on rare occasions a > concept is found to be so commonly used and so important that it > would unreasonable to deny it a gismu. > > > This is precisely what lujvo and fu'ivla are for.  New gismu would be useful > for brand-new *fundamental* concepts.  That's not likely to happen very > often. > > stevo I agree that even at the rate at which I am imagining new gismu to be created -- which may be ridiculously high -- there would be no actual problem in this regard for millennia. However, even though I can write a program to implementing the brute force algorithm that I have been able to come up with to answer my second question -- What is the _smallest_ number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting from an empty gismu space? -- the program would based on my initial guess be O(n!); I don't expect that the program would finish in my lifetime. The first question -- What is the _smallest_ number of new gismu that could fill up gismu space? -- might not be answerable except by the brute-force approach; but there has got to be a better way to answer the second -- What is the _smallest_ number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting from an empty gismu space? -- I've just not thought of it. Consider that question as a mathematical puzzle question with the rules for Lojban being the set-up for the question; one doesn't have to consider what inspired me to ask the question; I mentioned because I thought the notion of what inspired me to ask that question would be interesting, _not_ because I thought that it had any real _practical_ applications -- Mathematicians look for higher and higher pairs of amicable numbers (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicable_numbers) but as far as I know it is not for practical applications of them. Also, is a coincidence that your name "stevo" has the morphological form of a gismu, but does not show up in even the "experimental gismu" on the Lojban dictionary web search (http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Query= &Strategy=*&Database=jbo->en&submit=Submit+query), as "gumri" does. I personally will not use "la gumri" or the "la marca" that I remember seeing discussed a long time ago on a different message forum. "la marca" could be considered taking liberties with the morphology, so if you are using "la stevo" in the same way, you can hardly criticze me for my imagination since I'm just personally curious about the mathematical answer to my question, and don't intend to actually propose new gismu. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.