From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 24 18:57:39 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MflHx-0007th-4G for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:57:37 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MflHb-0007rj-Rj for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:57:30 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so2260762vws.25 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:56:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=lyS24Jc1LsyMMrMacJcu7+Znji0Gljd45rvuwT7kUTw=; b=qzaFafdZBgxm098OObIoq/G/j1VvfabbnwFAVYMmH+6aMeW9/oUDpNkwDtbdIhThsI jikVNmjeC3Vt/iXkHtaeaH6YQu37arT8Yh74q+b4o3EjOJMi3pN/gmqeQclg3z5zcaMf 1Trd1YHEhqmPpM0Vac3RxJrjS6nXdjL0pKlUo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=T//Qn9rwVObtiSLjh/Llw5AOPtyJNZvMG4NPtq2vdc89j88jkeW3IfsBz1hllfzgqP XHFn9gOiiOWPhHL/nU5ZEQGTnYHU/HV+SssHKDZJk+UUMUpKsrfzVPgcg8QiuyLrju6o ukvFux/ns9/LK/6pD4xFqz/CyhwlncrV0B2+8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.69.159 with SMTP id z31mr6760234vci.35.1251165419615; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:56:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:56:59 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300908241856w6a420187n865b106923685bc0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: How many possible gismu? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6469cda64356f0471eda669 X-archive-position: 16009 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016e6469cda64356f0471eda669 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've read your previous emails and am also not sure where O(n!) came from. Could you put the requirements (input, expected output, rules, etc...) into a short, concise list? On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:47 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 8/24/2009 21:08:35 Eastern Daylight Time, > fagricipni@gmail.com writes: > > > I agree that even at the rate at which I am imagining new gismu to be > created -- which may be ridiculously high -- there would be no actual > problem in this regard for millennia. However, even though I can write > a program to implementing the brute force algorithm that I have been > able to come up with to answer my second question -- What is the > _smallest_ number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting > from an empty gismu space? -- the program would based on my initial > guess be O(n!); I don't expect that the program would finish in my > lifetime. The first question -- What is the _smallest_ number > of new gismu that could fill up gismu space? -- might not be > answerable except by the brute-force approach; but there has got to > be a better way to answer the second -- What is the _smallest_ > number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting from an empty > gismu space? -- I've just not thought of it. Consider that question > as a mathematical puzzle question with the rules for Lojban being the > set-up for the question; one doesn't have to consider what inspired > me to ask the question; I mentioned because I thought the notion of > what inspired me to ask that question would be interesting, _not_ > because I thought that it had any real _practical_ applications -- > Mathematicians look for higher and higher pairs of amicable numbers > (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicable_numbers) but as far as > I know it is not for practical applications of them. > > > > This is an interesting problem. Doing it by hand might take a few days or > a week or two. How do you get O(n!) for it? > > stevo --0016e6469cda64356f0471eda669 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've read your previous emails and am also not sure where O(n!) came fr= om.=A0 Could you put the requirements (input, expected output, rules, etc..= .) into a short, concise list?

On Mon, Au= g 24, 2009 at 9:47 PM, <MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com> wrote:
In a message dated 8/24/20= 09 21:08:35 Eastern Daylight Time, fagricipni@gmail.com writes:


I agree that even at the rate at which I am imagining new gismu to= be
created -- which may be ridiculously high -- there would be no actual
problem in this regard for millennia. =A0However, even though I can wri= te
a program to implementing the brute force algorithm that I have been
able to come up with to answer my second question -- What is the
_smallest_ number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting
from an empty gismu space? -- the program would based on my initial
guess be O(n!); I don't expect that the program would finish in my
lifetime. =A0The first question -- What is the _smallest_ number
of new gismu that could fill up gismu space? -- might not be
answerable except by the brute-force approach; but there has got to
be a better way to answer the second -- What is the _smallest_
number of gismu that could fill gismu space, starting from an empty
gismu space? -- I've just not thought of it. =A0Consider that quest= ion
as a mathematical puzzle question with the rules for Lojban being the
set-up for the question; one doesn't have to consider what inspired
me to ask the question; I mentioned because I thought the notion of
what inspired me to ask that question would be interesting, _not_
because I thought that it had any real _practical_ applications --
Mathematicians look for higher and higher pairs of amicable numbers
(http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicable_numbers) but as far = as
I know it is not for practical applications of them.


This is an interesting problem. =A0Doing it by hand might take a = few days or a week or two. =A0How do you get O(n!) for it?

stevo

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