From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 26 13:38:59 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MgPGl-0002T4-Ey for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:38:59 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f219.google.com ([209.85.217.219]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MgPGi-0002SS-ND for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:38:59 -0700 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19so568115gxk.0 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:38:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=NaIIZZMiJjT1Uxt7Y8sHrs3l02LFhKfbObSc8mbsYCw=; b=ElU7MK9jxcDbjC0GktBviYvijgFHXde9B+6xqtYeCJW9wTMTCKjxapfhB7hbrCbJGj XmrEJsEs4xTZKOK9re23T2C0BOU3mqxK5FytKw0WwoBlpLIqNxT+X8/nlkyyJ2WXRkVO eYVb9LHJ2TTLdKfgfI5tTYWEybObBcrKEBX+8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=K4nMhbgHfIlAAGM9xvqxuDS02ozJm4UN3xbh6OOBxpftJF3sQ7X9BBQBDdwKsjwzXt FGzQ3I2KPRko07oZZ1OCCe141RmCxl+d3NtE28oAEcx51DoPjiFxHZYE3MYRbcLFQ1lz U63SQ/kEpgqp/g7Kk+qW67Da9RqyPMKiuanpE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.41.4 with SMTP id o4mr2864907ago.66.1251319129268; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <605395.64703.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3327.79.75.3.133.1251314231.squirrel@mailgate.denbridgemarine.com> <33340.79.75.83.32.1251317418.squirrel@mailgate.denbridgemarine.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:38:49 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: Compound vs Coordinate Bilinguals From: Adam Raizen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163616418b3362780472117081 X-archive-position: 16053 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: adam.raizen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00163616418b3362780472117081 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 23:29, Adam Raizen wrote: > Well, I disagree with that. As far as I can tell all coordinates get their > ability through acquisition, sometimes in conjunction with varying degrees > of learning. A coodinate bilingual who got their ability solely through > learning is probably non-existent, certainly extremely rare. I'd have to > reread Krashen but I believe the experimental evidence supports this. As far > as compounds and acquisition, there is also a complicating factor of > psychological motivation for learning the language, which seems to have a > very significant effect on what kind of language input gets accepted by the > student for the purpose of acquisition. > I should add that Krashen also has a component of his theory called Monitor theory, which is basically the ability to consciously apply rules (monitor one's linguistic output). Would you agree that a coordinate bilingual can necessarily use their ability orally, or would you assert if someone can pass for a native in writing but speaks non-fluently and with many foreign language mistakes, they are still a coordinate bilingual? If so we will have to clarify on our definitions some more. -- Adam Raizen Timendi causa est nescire. --00163616418b3362780472117081 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 23:29, = Adam Raizen <= adam.raizen@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I disagree with that= . As far as I can tell all coordinates get their ability through acquisitio= n, sometimes in conjunction with varying degrees of learning. A coodinate b= ilingual who got their ability solely through learning is probably non-exis= tent, certainly extremely rare. I'd have to reread Krashen but I believ= e the experimental evidence supports this. As far as compounds and acquisit= ion, there is also a complicating factor of psychological motivation for le= arning the language, which seems to have a very significant effect on what = kind of language input gets accepted by the student for the purpose of acqu= isition.

I should add that Krashen also has= a component of his theory called Monitor theory, which is basically the ab= ility to consciously apply rules (monitor one's linguistic output). Wou= ld you agree that a coordinate bilingual can necessarily use their ability = orally, or would you assert if someone can pass for a native in writing but= speaks non-fluently and with many foreign language mistakes, they are stil= l a coordinate bilingual? If so we will have to clarify on our definitions = some more.

--
Adam Raizen <adam.ra= izen@gmail.com>
Timendi causa est nescire.
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