From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Sep 11 07:20:30 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mm6zG-0007Zh-1x for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:20:30 -0700 Received: from express.cec.wustl.edu ([128.252.21.16] helo=mail.cec.wustl.edu) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mm6zA-0007Tw-6e for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:20:29 -0700 Received: from grid.cec.wustl.edu (grid.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.20.97]) by mail.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61231E8086; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: by grid.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix, from userid 29287) id BA3C21F7896; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grid.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4D11F7893; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:20:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: E-Prime & Lojban In-Reply-To: <4de8c3930909110409w35f41b1bm186e230607911514@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4de8c3930909110409w35f41b1bm186e230607911514@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-archive-position: 16150 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: adam@pubcrawler.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list I've looked at it a few times, but I can never entirely figure out what they intend. Nonetheless, it appears to me that the structure of Lojban would not help further the goals of E-Prime at all. Quoting from the article: ------ In the English language, the verb 'to be' has several distinct functions: * identity, of the form "noun copula noun" [The cat is an animal] * predication, of the form "noun copula adjective" [The cat is furry] * auxiliary, of the form "noun copula verb" [The cat is sleeping]; [The cat is bitten by the dog] * existence, of the form "copula noun" [There is a cat] * location, of the form "noun copula place" [The cat is on the mat] Bourland sees specifically the "identity" and "predication" functions as pernicious, but advocates eliminating all forms for the sake of simplicity. ------ Lojban uses predication extensively, almost exclusively. It seems like E-Prime wants to put a distancing verb in place of a form of "to be", so that "The cat is red" becomes something like "The cat appears red [to me, under this light." The natural Lojban form ({le mlatu cu xurne}), while omitting an explicit copula, seems equivalent to the deprecated English version. On Fri, 11 Sep 2009, tijlan wrote: > What do you think of E-Prime? > > Does the practice of Lojban discourage uses of "to be" in English? We > seem to frequent the form of "lo skina cu pluka" more than the form of > "lo skina cu me lo pluka", in which "me" may roughly correspond to the > English copula "be", as in "the movie is good". Could this mean that > Lojban has some bearings on the discipline of E-Prime? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime > > mu'o jundi mi'e tijlan > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.