From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Sep 11 09:26:33 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mm8xD-0005C6-NI for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:26:32 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f216.google.com ([209.85.219.216]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mm8x8-0005Bp-H5 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:26:31 -0700 Received: by ewy12 with SMTP id 12so1343403ewy.0 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:26:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=G5cSh3uJzL/eknJ0deT79BG224VAiHE8lv3l3gelxG4=; b=R4E00qY03d1q4QnJ6Q5/GLiWxWjoH1gHDnwHcJaZyVmhLyw+tXgLJ4f6+moojPG3UG Gc0RBNThjEVhHueLsfeTjeY3xHN6lt/jDU3XJMSplxqm5HR50oT8yxP59w7RHBmex2f0 2Mw9/H0kcdTbgKaGbAIP3rp56DMSzmcCFRQCY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=cD0atN3xXiRYdBNczDgltcdG6Ybc/TLMWh6Np9IuQDT4zT5VzYWRtV/ZCYuDdHNzro 5KWdkFEJkbWduocmflSFGCsZ79GJZGWN9YYMUhClyNAU++i4miO43Mk5KeXEJIM+5709 7Mi6YvbmTgSan7B/g1Gbf27amMLjk7smeWVc8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.1.21 with SMTP id 21mr229688wec.70.1252686379490; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:26:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:26:19 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: E-Prime & Lojban From: Mikael Hall To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646dbd4aa1dfe04734fc682 X-archive-position: 16157 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mikael.hall@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00163646dbd4aa1dfe04734fc682 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2009/9/11 > In a message dated 9/11/2009 09:24:39 Eastern Daylight Time, > mikael.hall@gmail.com writes: > > > I find e-prime interesting though, because lojban attempts to state > "facts" primarily, while e-prime want you to focus on "beliefs" - like t= he > "frequentist" vs "bayesian" view of statistics > > > > Really? I've never encountered this accompanying belief system in readin= g > about E-prime. > > stevo The following is taken at the site "http://nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm" : " Consider the following paired sets of propositions, in which Standard English alternates with English-Prime (E-Prime): lA. The electron is a wave. lB. The electron appears as a wave when measure= d with instrument-l. 2A. The electron is a particle. 2B. The electron appears as a particle when measured with instrument-2. 3A. John is lethargic and unhappy. 3B. John appears lethargic and unhappy i= n the office. 4A. John is bright and cheerful. 4B. John appears bright and cheerful on holiday at the beach. 5A. This is the knife the first man used to stab the second man. 5B. The first man appeared to stab the second man with what looked like a knife to me. 6A. The car involved in the hit-and-run accident was a blue Ford. 6B. In memory, I think I recall the car involved in the hit-and-run accident as a blue Ford. 7A. This is a fascist idea. 7B. This seems like a fascist idea to me. 8A. Beethoven is better than Mozart. 8B. In my present mixed state of musical education and ignorance, Beethoven seems better to me than Mozart. 9A. That is a sexist movie. 9B. That seems like a sexist movie to me. 10A. The fetus is a person. 10B. In my system of metaphysics, I classify th= e fetus as a person. The "A"-type statements (Standard English) all implicitl= y or explicitly assume the medieval view called "Aristotelian essentialism" o= r "naive realism." " Mikael Hall --=20 "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." =97 Niels Bohr "There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start and so on.= " =97 Robert Byrne --00163646dbd4aa1dfe04734fc682 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2009/9/11 <MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com&g= t;
In a mess= age dated 9/11/2009 09:24:39 Eastern Daylight Time, mikael.hall@gmail.com writes:


I find e-prime = interesting though, =A0because lojban attempts to state "facts" = =A0primarily, while e-prime want you to focus on "beliefs" - like= the "frequentist" vs "bayesian" view of statistics

Really? =A0I've never encountered this accompanying belief system i= n reading about E-prime. =A0

stevo

The following is taken at the site "http://nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm= " :

"

Consider the following paired se= ts of propositions, in which Standard English alternates with English-Prime (E-Prime):

lA. The electron is a wave.
lB. The electron appears as a wave when measured with instrume= nt-l.

2A. The electron is a particle.
2B. The electron appears as a particle when measured with instrument-2.

3A. John is lethargic and unhappy.
3B. John appears lethargic and unhappy in the office.

4A. John is bright and cheerful.
4B. John appears bright and cheerful on holiday at the beach.

5A. This is the knife the first man used to stab the secon= d man.
5B. The first man appeared to stab the second man with what looked like a knife to me.

6A. The car involved in the hit-and-run accident was a blu= e Ford.
6B. In memory, I think I recall the car involved in the hit-an= d-run accident as a blue Ford.

7A. This is a fascist idea.
7B. This seems like a fascist idea to me.

8A. Beethoven is better than Mozart.
8B. In my present mixed state of musical education and ignoran= ce, Beethoven seems better to me than Mozart.

9A. That is a sexist movie.
9B. That seems like a sexist movie to me.

10A. The fetus is a person.
10B. In my system of metaphysics, I classify the fetus as a person.
The "A"-type statements (Standard English) all implicitly or explicitly assume the medieval view called "Aristotelian essentialism" or "naive realism."

"


Mikael Hall
--
"No, no, you're not thinking; you'= re just being logical." =97 Niels Bohr

"There are two kind= s of people, those who finish what they start and so on."
=97 Robert Byrne

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