From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 28 20:54:16 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MsTmz-0004tz-OC for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:54:15 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MsTmh-0004qq-3J for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:54:08 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so3270588vws.25 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:53:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=jeqGjtT+UJXJoSzN7b9drNyFByyMTtXqxprteKcN9hA=; b=h4CplYnVwv6MFc70kl4QMXKN0SeAivKxOL1ZhiT0VfC3Vq+OZ2fBemvClunhXCBAqp AzsGeCWl7cXIZQxS20zMoxdLAXh6D9D5pYteim33wykib7iVi3jc+JPN7GexoRcSAye8 eRqrGi/M/XpZ0HSXTtRXc26pOFG/fnuymSm1c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=Lw2VIQZj5ncKPiR8JPnanBDuL90//bWo9SGWm8ysDYSwQv+HtM0iKJS0Au3HaVmPEw lCnqxCXC5q+gmhA+qBFeJdkyIoe8Oiq3/3XsQsdNWNJuAmHipwbMFWfrn7zIB0QrwvMw n0Pi5bZYL1hmc1Ns6AyHPzDjPr6NEr+fZpkMY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.89.77 with SMTP id d13mr6981849vcm.91.1254196416424; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:53:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Oren Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:53:16 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e550909282053x49e07c1cg7198b092799da748@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Translating "even" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b81f8e159440474af5b63 X-archive-position: 16259 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016363b81f8e159440474af5b63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable @morphimeAddict: I can't seem to rephrase it (with brevity) with the same emotion, without an "even." @all: Let me make sure I'm understanding this right; in the following sentence, "ko'a na cikna ji'asai .i na xanka ji'aru'e" "ji'asai" marks the preceding "na cikna" as additional and emphasized, and "ji'aru'e" marks "na xanka" as additional, and de-emphasized? I'm confused why we're still "adding" the second half (to de-emphasize it, = I suppose) ...is there a way to use "ji'anai" or avoid using "ji'a" entirely? ki'e ki'e ki'e On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:07, wrote: > In a message dated 9/28/2009 21:28:15 Eastern Daylight Time, > get.oren@gmail.com writes: > > > what about "even" as in > > 'Even two people can't move it, how could just you alone?' > > or > > 'She wasn't even awake, let alone concerned.' > > Both of these phrases seem to use even to suggest some unfulfilled > prerequisite, before emphasizing that an [even] earlier prerequisite is > unmet. I guess what I'm asking is, what's a 'subtractive' counterpart tha= t > you could use to emphasize the inadequacy of something (in the second hal= f > of the above phrases)? There's probably more than one way... > > la .ku'us. > > > > How would you paraphrase it in English without using "even"? > > mu'o mi'e stevon --=20 =E7=99=BD=E6=9D=BE - Oren Robinson +86-15810101944 Sent from Beijing, 11, China --0016363b81f8e159440474af5b63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable @morphimeAddict: I can't seem to rephrase it (with brevity) with the sa= me emotion, without an "even."

@all:

Let me make su= re I'm understanding this right; in the following sentence,

&quo= t;ko'a na cikna ji'asai .i na xanka ji'aru'e"

"ji'asai" marks the preceding "na cikna" as add= itional and emphasized, and
"ji'aru'e" marks "na = xanka" as additional, and de-emphasized?

I'm confused why w= e're still "adding" the second half (to de-emphasize it, I su= ppose) ...is there a way to use "ji'anai" or avoid using &quo= t;ji'a" entirely?

ki'e ki'e ki'e

On Tue, Se= p 29, 2009 at 11:07, <MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com> wrote:
In a mess= age dated 9/28/2009 21:28:15 Eastern Daylight Time, get.oren@gmail.com writes:


what about "even" as in

'Even two people can't move it, how could just you alone?'

or

'She wasn't even awake, let alone concerned.'

Both of these phrases seem to use even to sugge= st some unfulfilled prerequisite, before emphasizing that an [even] earlier= prerequisite is unmet. I guess what I'm asking is, what's a 's= ubtractive' counterpart that you could use to emphasize the inadequacy = of something (in the second half of the above phrases)? There's probabl= y more than one way...

la .ku'us.


How would you paraphrase it in English without using "even"? = =C2=A0

mu'o mi'e stevon



--
=E7=99=BD=E6=9D= =BE - Oren Robinson
+86-15810101944
Sent from Beijing, 11, China --0016363b81f8e159440474af5b63-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.