From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Sep 29 06:05:50 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MscOr-0001mN-Rc for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:05:50 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f210.google.com ([209.85.217.210]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MscOo-0001m4-Jq for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:05:49 -0700 Received: by gxk2 with SMTP id 2so3501370gxk.4 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:05:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/TDFwROUPQXgWgeUz6HG54QCRTFo9nIQHovnzxy+f6Q=; b=QIRUNo4lyYxvMK5vkBqavhEeT88B03o/hrXHy+f8kGc0DsYu1/bPXF7t7eUa9tEu8y ACuKFK96AZ7Xr/CfWCDuZ1GS8wpPIPhCGLXfwGz1McQYFm3BydS2ythLBC/5RPuJ6ndB /9DRf0NuuyrrXkDEwphiaVQSePWfXWiFFAs1I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FKU8TkfcUg4wv3gTEpUSptPwJSDKU3U9cHKGFQJQ8DCMLNjChJDVDzjlXr9TXI7V8P G9tI+U3y2ploNiadApT6IuQZ5S81b4kxGyu0jmo2iUVQRC7UfbPemdx/FmOeVOV0AojK AwteyMiGHl0bYX9GJM2FJHQ/of8oSIHpAHDiM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.127.3 with SMTP id e3mr1959011agn.111.1254229540397; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:05:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <391271.68882.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <391271.68882.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:05:40 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560909290605l612f7541jc663928a6017ecf5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Translating "even" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16263 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:41 AM, John E Clifford wrote: > Standard logic crap from fifty years ago now: John liked it.  Everyone else > liked it.  It is sueprising that John liked it (John does not usually like > things of this sort). "Surprise" is often invoked when dealing with "even", but it is easily defeasible. "The cake was so good that it was no surprise to anyone that even John liked it." We can't really reexpress that by saying that it is surprising that John liked it. Extreme cases are often the most surprising, so "even" can indirectly indicate a surprising case in that sense, but I don't think surprise is part of the intrinsic meaning of "even". In the case of "She is not concerned. In fact, she is not even awake." there need not be any surprise involved either. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.