From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Sep 30 14:33:01 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mt6nE-0005XB-IC for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:33:00 -0700 Received: from mail-yx0-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mt6nA-0005We-P2 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:33:00 -0700 Received: by yxe7 with SMTP id 7so1321731yxe.25 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:32:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jJHKvfBNjXal0HvqwEnWT1XMNVGG/cnk9yxxHSXaxcs=; b=S/SBV/bPR1RQovqPHC9QtbsN9nG8XMuX+5uWzoyT/wltQnkepWvQ+QJLa04OXVj1KO ny4Dp9SLZhG4G2jhUtJHDOVpR/SGPsrErstmVv0RPjNQrmKuVR26P2XiGMnt6FTUfGY8 l6JSDOYr1bAWviKZjHahF40Uj/4fDRNVamIgc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=B1WAnlSNb2mLSUV/WrFQBq6rRFki7fBJ2by3EdK0mCOv14sw9FpUnhwn3Dht09W/+N r7dLwHZIQz1SgwsiOBG1qw/dLj1s9yTr1LH3n40UVAOTMcRp0Z91VfCPBN5/aXlpi269 AcINy199Xx/9xgYcabbnT5oQmE8T5axx0Bfqo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.255.1 with SMTP id c1mr211170agi.115.1254346370516; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:32:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4AC3C59A.7040102@kli.org> References: <16d9defd0909301348o30bb27d4x55540b2192f1eb7d@mail.gmail.com> <4AC3C59A.7040102@kli.org> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:32:50 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560909301432s5c2e67ebu939015b35194f0f4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: How to reduce the amount of something? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16283 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote: > On 09/30/2009 04:48 PM, chris kerr wrote: >> Someone on IRC asked for a lojban translation of: >> >> Resolved: The United States Federal Government should substantially >> reduce the size of its nuclear weapons arsenal, and/or substantially >> reduce and restrict the role and/or missions of its nuclear weapons arsenal. >> >> I came up with:  .i xusra lo du'u ma'a nitcu lo nu lo mergu'e ga jdika >> lo ni ri ratske xarci ku gi jitro lo zu'o pilno lo ra ratske xarci (I suggest "jdice" rather than "xusra" for "resolve". Also, if "ri" is "lo mergu'e", you want "te xarci", the extent to which the US is nuclear-weaponed, not the extent to which the US is a nuclear weapon. Or maybe you wanted to say "lo ri ni".) >> But there is something not right with using {ni} to talk about reducing >> the number of nuclear weapons. > > Someone remind me: is it not the case that you can't use {ni} (or any > abstractor) for things like this, because {lo ni...} is equivalent to > some *number* (and you can't reduce 41,291)?  I seem to recall that {ni} > and {jei} had lost most of their utility due to this instantiation in > extension, and that was why we had to bring in {kau}. I don't think this was ever settled one way or the other. The definition seems to say "ni" is a se klani, but mostly it is used as a klani. I use it to mean "the extent to which (bridi) is true". For "whether" I always use "lo du'u xu kau" rather than "lo jei". mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.