From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Oct 27 10:00:51 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N2pPf-00030D-AF for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:00:51 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f224.google.com ([209.85.217.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N2pPb-0002yA-J9 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:00:51 -0700 Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so2898976gxk.6 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=IeI4IgG3ZGDyomy0O1eUiXzmCC+iM3ZFlM2cYaNyJSg=; b=vm28oURP3o8RlM6AwavFYSj4Rqx+5GbKRTgb2LCULiqDuhZrvhlSvw6fnhBSnwoK9u D2kP2HjcKd8sZSaqCcumyetrxyEWsvfwEP67PHO4f3cH4yfdexRpAuPRXGd8KUIQ/6mU gGsekYf/tUndw8dBunwzvTq8vj5Ggd8l08ios= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HrC+zaeq1ieRLZVATbISI3LewQ+Zo/FCNhDenAVpIvjJvvBU1Yxqyx/JT7OiaBLirw EQPeOXg4Vx24EeJaJ0QrWNctbIeSAw4FbdlJlCUHIf4eQ8oFUe0BDK89V73er2jkt3TS ugYU7j0QqKmMTiIlDmkjI2Z34KZ/N0fh8SCZo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.22.2 with SMTP id 2mr9374855agv.104.1256662840870; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4AE71391.5090501@fastmail.fm> References: <4AE71391.5090501@fastmail.fm> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:00:40 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560910271000j10c5f931ga1f4d12f85c12651@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: xorlo and the expansion of bridi From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 16398 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Roman Naumann wrote: > coi rodo > > I wonder how bridi expand with xorlo. > > Before xorlo > {A lo B gerku cu vasxu} ("A of B dogs breath" and "B dogs exist") (BTW, what does "B dogs exist" mean to you exactly? Is that the number of dogs alive at the time of the utterance, the number of dogs that have ever existed or will exist on this planet, or something else, depending on the context?) > expanded to > {B da poi gerku ku'o A da vasxu}. > Where A and B are PA. > > Is the (without-xorlo-)expansion correct? No, you have "B da poi gerku ku'o" as the x1 of vasxu, and "A da" as the x2. Also, binding the same variable twice doesn't make much sense. > How does {A lo B gerku cu vasxu} expand with xorlo? It might be something like this: lo gerku goi ko'a cu klani li B .i A ko'a cu vasxu The dogs are B in number. A of them breath. Or we could put everything in one bridi as: A da poi me lo gerku noi klani li B cu vasxu A of the dogs, which are B in all, breath. But this is not exactly about xorlo, at least not about "lo". This is how quantifiers work in general. An outer quantifier on any sumti works the same way: A cu broda = A da poi me cu broda A of the referents of are broda. And the inner quantifier also works the same for all sumti, it gives the number of referents that the sumti has. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.