From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Nov 15 00:22:29 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N9aNQ-0004mB-J8 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:22:29 -0800 Received: from web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.38.72]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N9aNK-0004la-Rz for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:22:28 -0800 Received: (qmail 94930 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Nov 2009 08:22:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1258273335; bh=2TAhpM+9hRMEHlmMBiAuGW3VRFE/IO3qR1YMjKGHCsc=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=RoXWHcIlF6O45y/W32urVWDTppNwXOAoY32VEjQMONDJrjQyQ5ySjtidhopjIJbsw8YEX4TcLMr+1y+gqHr8ZvmDAy/75Cpio3CO2Jz3g6O2MsgLhugAd+ULqsa4ezqIjyyFjXm+l2etszVQak6m2qOk9xmIp3iihNxX2L/rpOU= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=zdI9rnR1n2HcfoNpp0VTX7w5BIJ0voK7s78DaPBe5qZrysUEKSW+7uC7JNMqCZBVXqsw8h/j/WC9sEFBKLD4J0bB6MeOnZtqqf9HKKuXQP25Td4IrDLxRPBzgUQ8dj69D8FjtAXNejfNClKC+e6aCOeJtxTygV9u/ETMD550J8k=; Message-ID: <566759.91671.qm@web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: m1htvqIVM1lobMepLbUa1GQvRdzYGhk4eGtmfWzsKnV9dhXxdIWpOc9MjmRivF3yFD_lzn2cDLReGwY3Zo0EmyoMZCrjsOgGd59WAGTFvpgkyrv2cyuPKuYnC7sIIT11VBnKiUxvT4jZ6fvtyhPsYsNlKpDNqiG.3cHV9tAY_AU9zaW_uQcCFMa6p7a9et9MzcSd2BSRcZTY4gIxbmHsG.pbl8smZHZP1qjSOSrbzdA60GfwHZg7dyv4CVVLS2gHu6ocrxwjzIeqOeleJfKnpz.CcDJXy81_.9e_ME3k1YMerCJO3UsWR2v5GsBBxSjbUrT58TpJeAPi5OLGz0or6zyBUsrQbYvm4c9L2.2kq8SJBrDjE51fCuH0 Received: from [173.196.20.139] by web50407.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:22:15 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/211.6 YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 References: <5715b9300911141515n4e132564lb76cd0c8b268a9d9@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b950911141610w24da4aaes725f2fbee3a0a438@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:22:15 -0800 (PST) From: Lindar Greenwood Subject: [lojban] Re: Alternate writing systems? To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <249d5b950911141610w24da4aaes725f2fbee3a0a438@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1672930415-1258273335=:91671" X-archive-position: 16467 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0-1672930415-1258273335=:91671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Okay, to be quite honest, I think that you're all getting VERY carried away with this. I saw a cool writing system, I adapted it for Lojban (you can see my piss-poor examples and documentation on jbotcan), and I thought it would be cute an an added culturalism for anybody that wanted to use it. I wasn't doing the "Ancient Loglandia" thing with lojbo gugde, I wasn't trying to retcon a writing system in the history, I wasn't trying to do anything except make a short, quick, easy-to-learn script for anybody that wanted to hand-write personal notes in a different script that could be easily identified as Lojban due to its primary non-use in any language. Coming from the person that adapted Elian Script for Lojban, I say this as the final word, Hand of God, that in the model of current society there is no reason to fully adapt a script other than Roman. 95% of the Western world uses it on a daily basis, at least half uses it everywhere else because England/America invented the computer, ISO, the Internet, and pretty much every other piece of technology first, so the standard has already been set in Roman, and there's no reason to cause anybody any large amount of grief to install a new non-standard and unrecognised non-ISO script and learn an entirely new writing system when Lojban is already hard enough for a good number of people. Larlermorna won't replace Roman script unless we have an actual physical community or country of our own where Lojban is the national language, in which case we may (MAY, not will) decide to adapt an official Lojbanic script, which may not even be any of the ones currently available. Don't pitch such a fit over all of this. It's meant to be fun. It takes all of five minutes to be able to learn, and about a day of practice to read, which is why I liked it in the first place. I think that 95% of the tech-savvy world can read Roman letters, so lets not push our luck and make Lojban that much more difficult. If you want to post to jbotcan a picture of yourself holding up something written in lar/zba/srilermorna, then that's fine. I'm pretty sure I speak for everybody that's created a Lojban script when I say that nothing short of a miracle is going to replace Roman script any time soon, and we never intended to try to replace it. If somebody is keen on buying/building a self-sufficient island-country and declaring in the official lojbo gugde, then we'll talk. mi'e .lindar. > >From: Steven Lytle >To: lojban-list@lojban.org >Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 4:10:11 PM >Subject: [lojban] Re: Alternate writing systems? > > >You can pretend that if you like, but there is nothing wrong with the Latin-based orthography. It fits perfectly Lojban's actual history, although maybe not some fictional history. > >stevo > > >On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >hmm, so maybe an alternate writing system like elian script would be more like the "native lojban" while the latin alphabet is used for teaching new people etc... Kind of like what romaji is to Japanese. >> >> >> >> >>On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:36 AM, LakatosI wrote: >> >> >>>Re: Alternate writing systems? >>> >>>Author: LakatosI >>> >>> >>>The problem with using an Alternate writing system is that you could only really use it when you're handwriting something. Sure, it would make in even more culturally neutral, but when you're writing something in Lojban on the computer or when you want to print something it's just much more convenient to use something which is as wide spread like the Roman-alphabet. Although I have to agree that Elian Script looks awesome. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org >>>with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if >>>>>>you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >>> >>> >> > --0-1672930415-1258273335=:91671 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Okay, to be quite honest, I think that you're all getting VERY carried away with this.
I saw a cool writing system, I adapted it for Lojban (you can see my piss-poor examples and documentation on jbotcan), and I thought it would be cute an an added culturalism for anybody that wanted to use it. I wasn't doing the "Ancient Loglandia" thing with lojbo gugde, I wasn't trying to retcon a writing system in the history, I wasn't trying to do anything except make a short, quick, easy-to-learn script for anybody that wanted to hand-write personal notes in a different script that could be easily identified as Lojban due to its primary non-use in any language.

Coming from the person that adapted Elian Script for Lojban, I say this as the final word, Hand of God, that in the model of current society there is no reason to fully adapt a script other than Roman. 95% of the Western world uses it on a daily basis, at least half uses it everywhere else because England/America invented the computer, ISO, the Internet, and pretty much every other piece of technology first, so the standard has already been set in Roman, and there's no reason to cause anybody any large amount of grief to install a new non-standard and unrecognised non-ISO script and learn an entirely new writing system when Lojban is already hard enough for a good number of people. Larlermorna won't replace Roman script unless we have an actual physical community or country of our own where Lojban is the national language, in which case we may (MAY, not will) decide to adapt an official Lojbanic script, which may not even be any of the ones currently available.

Don't pitch such a fit over all of this. It's meant to be fun. It takes all of five minutes to be able to learn, and about a day of practice to read, which is why I liked it in the first place. I think that 95% of the tech-savvy world can read Roman letters, so lets not push our luck and make Lojban that much more difficult. If you want to post to jbotcan a picture of yourself holding up something written in lar/zba/srilermorna, then that's fine.

I'm pretty sure I speak for everybody that's created a Lojban script when I say that nothing short of a miracle is going to replace Roman script any time soon, and we never intended to try to replace it.

If somebody is keen on buying/building a self-sufficient island-country and declaring in the official lojbo gugde, then we'll talk.

mi'e .lindar.

From: Steven Lytle <lytlesw@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 4:10:11 PM
Subject: [lojban] Re: Alternate writing systems?

You can pretend that if you like, but there is nothing wrong with the Latin-based orthography. It fits perfectly Lojban's actual history, although maybe not some fictional history.
 
stevo

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
hmm, so maybe an alternate writing system like elian script would be more like the "native lojban" while the latin alphabet is used for teaching new people etc...  Kind of like what romaji is to Japanese.


On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:36 AM, LakatosI <lojban-out@lojban.org> wrote:

Re: Alternate writing systems?

Author: LakatosI


The problem with using an Alternate writing system is that you could only really use it when you're handwriting something. Sure, it would make in even more culturally neutral, but when you're writing something in Lojban on the computer or when you want to print something it's just much more convenient to use something which is as wide spread like the Roman-alphabet. Although I have to agree that Elian Script looks awesome.




To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




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