From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 18 03:53:28 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:53:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLbOh-00019q-R9 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:53:28 -0800 Received: from mail-fx0-f225.google.com ([209.85.220.225]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLbO3-0000at-Pm for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:52:59 -0800 Received: by fxm25 with SMTP id 25so2077408fxm.26 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:52:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vvR2iXe1f4tOk0g6dYCh5DG/KIwhRNAIafKeA3JbKlQ=; b=HjC2cHPa8ZiV3FI5IjdaprKJcNUPXZbGCWq0sQy7/KjQLWIoo6Ct0tXBll5d9RRsNX u7Vt+9UEwbuJUgxdbQqbsTdoL4lQu60fHvq/G+n59NkMsvP4Dc8eQu3a6zbSUrHz34JG ZRuBHsv9ux9Fy4hIEFREeKakr9eOOexs9Rib0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=v+mCWbg0XxGd1xpqoCgpqu36ugkxhEx9tzLM67rpKfon974EtxbYL+/eDosCykiCvX MbZoRe+pLFGnEmioicM/WiMiBlkrqG/iLuZ37882NNur4FUAbbd8wzopgPAk9j26LIHf v2PFsvBPoHmUeSaQTOOmKJKdQ30x7pZcY9svs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.67.33 with SMTP id u33mr1760649muk.8.1261137160166; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:52:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5715b9300912171323y6c5a659dy22db9f86144402be@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300912171323y6c5a659dy22db9f86144402be@mail.gmail.com> From: Daniel Brockman Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:52:20 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 48161c8bcefa114c Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: tense question To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16686 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: daniel@brockman.se Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that I > don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}.  I kind of > understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca} is > used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from > {ca'o}? I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}. Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that {ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time. While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}. .i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi I like you when you like me. I like you at some instant when you like me. .i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi I like you while you like me. I like you the whole time you like me. Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o}, you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time. -- Daniel Brockman daniel@brockman.se To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.