From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 18 11:54:36 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLiuK-0001iw-9j for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:54:36 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLirG-0000Yu-SC for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:51:31 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so697186fga.10 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:51:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=f3vCmXSnTvjBL1f19L+iP0ej/AYv+hbA7GpBprneY50=; b=BEjfmcC9hERTMbKt/kOj7SyDI1Mbo/tI9UKBNClYjE/e521bWGElWKZmuf6Riq1mHm 6IPTf7uZdx3G9kqQlZrrxea5yMkO/DvWzowEMMFG/wqKsideVWMDRwtd2APk3g9UMtHy MpHxNuS9JsWCXzWgjDYrFAAGXs2Ss9r6m0eq4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=dR2OR90FIAcTj5PtnF+o47NJ0H+7GH5fL8cIW8m6EOwRoIu8YWpmIFjqYYTsUsh87Q JSKI4HNF5qA10E1enef5mAkAL8XHxYTII0iBLM5XaEQMTxk/1AbdjXA9JqKL0wSgLkf8 5iCwiayWsp0+t22QRz+WLXLiXH01RvfjnUQn0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.163.199 with SMTP id q7mr446874hbd.29.1261165884636; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:51:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:51:24 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5109e5136a066ae Message-ID: <12d58c160912181151m6f233dd2j20d9a598ad10ae09@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: The New Method From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f20bc88e7fc4047b06108e X-archive-position: 16698 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --001485f20bc88e7fc4047b06108e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jameson Orndorff wrote: > coi lo tadni .e lo ctuca mi'e .kribacr. > > Greetings! As some of you may already know, myself as well as others have > been teaching lessons on IRC for the last couple months with some pretty > encouraging results, and I wanted to share some thoughts with the community > about the method and "path" I/we use in our lessons. There is a Google Wave > that is being compiled of our work, which I hope can be used as the > foundation not only for a new learning hard copy text (incorporating xorlo > and dotside) but as the basis for an online interactive lesson, the details > of which I'd like to outline here and open for questions and comments. > > The biggest change in teaching methods and the one thing that I've noticed > having the best impact is the up-front teaching of terminators; their use, > and why they are important and necessary. Only after establishing this basis > do we teach {cu} and elision, and this method has produced stronger > understanding in when they are needed and why they are useful. I am also > putting a stronger emphasis on teaching only the necessary terminology when > absolutely needed. We basically go through as much as we can using only the > terms {selbri}, {bridi}, and {sumti}. This has allowed more ground to be > covered earlier, which then provides more of a basis and contrast for the > student to then better grasp the more complex forms and terminology that > comes later. > > Without further ado, this is a rough outline to our new methods, in the > order in which they are taught: > > - General introduction - a bit on "thinking lojbanically", the terms > sumti, selbri, and bridi, a few sample bridi using only simple KOhA like > {mi} {do} and {ti}, and trying to convey the differences between English and > lojban and why selbri, sumti, and bridi don't really exist in English. > - A more detailed look at place structure, and how to play with it - > the rules for sliding sumti around, and also introduce FA. > - Simple tanru, using as diverse of a vocabulary as we can muster. We > teach with great emphasis that ANY time two selbri are adjacent in text, > they form a tanru. This emphasis and the fact that no terminators have been > introduced as of yet turns out to be a great aid in getting tanru formation > and proper sumti termination / {cu} usage correct. > - {lo ... ku} and possibly {la} (brivla version only) - No specific > mention that {ku} may be left out is made. Stress the openness of xorlo {lo} > and its specific use, and give examples that are contrary to English thought > - {lo cnino ku}, {lo xunre ku}, etc. > - At this point, a brief on {ko}, {ma}, {mo}, and maybe a brief mention > of attitudinals and vocatives. (It's hard to put these off since they are so > frequently used, but I'd make the case that they can wait a bit.) > - {be ... bei ... be'o} - Again, making the case that the terminator is > necessary. Strong examples help here. Usually the idea of nesting these > within a tanru is easily taught and understood. Make a connection with the > earlier lesson about place structure in that the "first" sumti after a > selbri is going to be the x2. > - SE. State that you are essentially creating a new selbri with a new > place structure - this is a good time to potentially introduce the terms > {gismu} and {brivla}. > - {NU ... kei}. I only really mention {du'u} and {nu} since they are > the simplest and by far the most common. {su'u} is potentially worth a > mention. As always, strong detailed examples help. > - {cu} and terminator elision. By this time, the user is going to start > seeing very bulky phrases with 3, 4, 5 or more terminators at the end of > their jufra. What a mess! {cu} becomes a lot easier to teach in terms of the > "levels" it can cut through by teaching it right after NU. > - {fi'o ... fe'u} and BAI. Since this lesson comes after terminator > elision, {fe'u} should be mentioned but shown that it can be elided.Teaching > {fi'o} first opens up a lot of options and gets the students more > comfortable with tags in general. > > Clearly there is still a lot to teach at this point: tenses, aspects, > connectives, fu'ivla, lujvo, etc. But I think the outline above covers a > strong majority of the structural aspects of lojban and have had great > success and reasonable retention when teaching students using this method. > > As for the web-based lessons, I had the idea of writing out lessons in this > form (teaching more or less the full grammar in its basics) with one pass > and branding it "Level 1". "Level 2" will then be available to the user as a > direct overlay on the existing material. That is to say, that by checking a > box on the website or something, they can cause new text to mix in with the > existing lessons (probably of a different color). So the introduction > chapter will have the same Level 1 text, but will also expand upon those > ideas and possibly introduce more terminology for level 2. The {lo} / {la} > chapter can expand to detail {le} and the other use of {la} as well as inner > / outer quantifiers in level 2. The NU chapter can explain some of the finer > points of NU and some of the other ones, {ni}, {ka}, {se du'u} vs. {du'u}, > etc. Level 3 will just be another overlay with the absolute full detail of > the language. > > I await your comments and suggestions. > Brief comment: io sai Bravissimo. It has struck me that teaching all terminators to beginners was probably a good idea. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan --001485f20bc88e7fc4047b06108e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jameson Orndorf= f <jtorndorff@= gmail.com> wrote:
coi lo tadni .e lo ctuca mi'e .kribacr.

Greetings! As some of yo= u may already know, myself as well as others have been teaching lessons on = IRC for the last couple months with some pretty encouraging results, and I = wanted to share some thoughts with the community about the method and "= ;path" I/we use in our lessons. There is a Google Wave that is being c= ompiled of our work, which I hope can be used as the foundation not only fo= r a new learning hard copy text (incorporating xorlo and dotside) but as th= e basis for an online interactive lesson, the details of which I'd like= to outline here and open for questions and comments.

The biggest change in teaching methods and the one thing that I've = noticed having the best impact is the up-front teaching of terminators; the= ir use, and why they are important and necessary. Only after establishing t= his basis do we teach {cu} and elision, and this method has produced strong= er understanding in when they are needed and why they are useful. I am also= putting a stronger emphasis on teaching only the necessary terminology whe= n absolutely needed. We basically go through as much as we can using only t= he terms {selbri}, {bridi}, and {sumti}. This has allowed more ground to be= covered earlier, which then provides more of a basis and contrast for the = student to then better grasp the more complex forms and terminology that co= mes later.

Without further ado, this is a rough outline to our new methods, in the= order in which they are taught:
  • General introduction - a bit on= "thinking lojbanically", the terms sumti, selbri, and bridi, a f= ew sample bridi using only simple KOhA like {mi} {do} and {ti}, and trying = to convey the differences between English and lojban and why selbri, sumti,= and bridi don't really exist in English.
  • A more detailed look at place structure, and how to play with it - the = rules for sliding sumti around, and also introduce FA.
  • Simple tanru= , using as diverse of a vocabulary as we can muster. We teach with great em= phasis that ANY time two selbri are adjacent in text, they form a tanru. Th= is emphasis and the fact that no terminators have been introduced as of yet= turns out to be a great aid in getting tanru formation and proper sumti te= rmination / {cu} usage correct.
  • {lo ... ku} and possibly {la} (brivla version only) - No specific menti= on that {ku} may be left out is made. Stress the openness of xorlo {lo} and= its specific use, and give examples that are contrary to English thought -= {lo cnino ku}, {lo xunre ku}, etc.
  • At this point, a brief on {ko}, {ma}, {mo}, and maybe a brief mention o= f attitudinals and vocatives. (It's hard to put these off since they ar= e so frequently used, but I'd make the case that they can wait a bit.)<= /li>
  • {be ... bei ... be'o} - Again, making the case that the terminator = is necessary. Strong examples help here. Usually the idea of nesting these = within a tanru is easily taught and understood. Make a connection with the = earlier lesson about place structure in that the "first" sumti af= ter a selbri is going to be the x2.
  • SE. State that you are essentially creating a new selbri with a new pla= ce structure - this is a good time to potentially introduce the terms {gism= u} and {brivla}.
  • {NU ... kei}. I only really mention {du'u} and= {nu} since they are the simplest and by far the most common. {su'u} is= potentially worth a mention. As always, strong detailed examples help.
  • {cu} and terminator elision. By this time, the user is going to st= art seeing very bulky phrases with 3, 4, 5 or more terminators at the end o= f their jufra. What a mess! {cu} becomes a lot easier to teach in terms of = the "levels" it can cut through by teaching it right after NU.
  • {fi'o ... fe'u} and BAI. Since this lesson comes after terminat= or elision, {fe'u} should be mentioned but shown that it can be elided.= Teaching {fi'o} first opens up a lot of options and gets the students m= ore comfortable with tags in general.=C2=A0
Clearly there is still a lot to teach at this point: tenses, aspects, = connectives, fu'ivla, lujvo, etc. But I think the outline above covers = a strong majority of the structural aspects of lojban and have had great su= ccess and reasonable retention when teaching students using this method.
As for the web-based lessons, I had the idea of writing out lessons in = this form (teaching more or less the full grammar in its basics) with one p= ass and branding it "Level 1". "Level 2" will then be a= vailable to the user as a direct overlay on the existing material. That is = to say, that by checking a box on the website or something, they can cause = new text to mix in with the existing lessons (probably of a different color= ). So the introduction chapter will have the same Level 1 text, but will al= so expand upon those ideas and possibly introduce more terminology for leve= l 2. The {lo} / {la} chapter can expand to detail {le} and the other use of= {la} as well as inner / outer quantifiers in level 2. The NU chapter can e= xplain some of the finer points of NU and some of the other ones, {ni}, {ka= }, {se du'u} vs. {du'u}, etc. Level 3 will just be another overlay = with the absolute full detail of the language.

I await your comments and suggestions.

Brief comment: io sai Bravissimo. It has struck me t= hat teaching all terminators to beginners was probably a good idea. mu'= o mi'e komfo,amonan
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