From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 18 15:19:26 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLm6X-0005MB-CK for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:19:26 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f187.google.com ([209.85.211.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLm69-0004oc-SD for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:19:08 -0800 Received: by ywh17 with SMTP id 17so4361358ywh.2 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:18:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dtOW8Ih/4DJBICZnSd36xeuXbTfP2zI5R8d9zFl13mg=; b=FOarn/pes/n+RMQJYssYY7BKGNJzngUnpGejJz2SUmDwNoMU8EeXiM0dc/yoN1YpRr W/V8tjDvmyGLXW/d6C7MT/aTW1k4cVjt4CtJsX8QwVKpErpevJd6GdCX7HupuHqz6jV1 w5Mgfw5RGhyrkcw729iV+eLz1Q+03u3XT3D64= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jKkyS2rW1xgJ5p3TXRXqZu+OxjmlCO7jreys3h/vtx+PqN3mx5Lu8jzPkZbobR7J5t 2CEBeHkPkifpnNI4IyFW9llPmaX9X5ESqto4pu6p5YrGgsO0KStXrttnZRbuH9L2YNca ZGMtXBTeeWaPxXNelkPOpNYiePuW9kYxVrIDc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.54.18 with SMTP id g18mr4899466agk.53.1261178335557; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:18:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181211o485199adj246be26f7ce5e368@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181227j40b5b65didcef9b757ce87df0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181357y2ba48da3rf9190d51c3ed9690@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:18:55 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17560912181518i133ea386s336a99cbc23fbf6a@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: The New Method From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16709 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > I guess I hadn't thought of {ca klama} as a selbri. I'm probably very influenced by the use in the formal grammars, where the tag is clearly a part of the construction called "selbri". > I had considered it as a > selbri tcita ({ca}) attached to a selbri ({klama}).  But it's possible that > was I was thinking of as selbri is more what has been called "tanru unit", > but that seems even more complicated. "tanru-unit" is what it is called in the formal grammar, but of course such things need not be part of any tanru, so that name is also weird. Also, "broda je brode" and "broda co brode" are selbri but not tanru-units for the formal grammar. > Teaching the > terminators as an actual part of the construct, which can in some cases be > omitted if doing so doesn't cause a different parse, does seem to produce > much > better results than teaching them as something extra that needs to be added > at odd times. Yes, definitely. That's how they are presented in CLL, and that's how they were taught in the original lessons by lojbab. I think it was Lojban for Beginners that deviated from that. > It might be possible to teach elidability right after {lo ... ku}, but hold > off on {cu} until considerably later (after {NU ... kei}, for instance). I don't see the advantage of holding off on "cu". Forgetting "cu" is probably the most common mistake that beginners make. I think the best way to present terminators is to write sentences initially as "lo mlatu [ku] cu blabi [vau]", showing both that the terminator is there, and that it is elidable. Or maybe I just like that method because that's how they were taught to me, and it always seemed very clear. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.