From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 18 16:22:39 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLn5j-0000ih-1X for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:22:39 -0800 Received: from mail-fx0-f225.google.com ([209.85.220.225]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLn5P-00008S-7p for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:22:22 -0800 Received: by fxm25 with SMTP id 25so2720808fxm.26 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:22:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IOsMeM3ua76RIDaIT47aDSeGoyEfOcO2VmxVhdI50wY=; b=buS8YPkuUIbKEWIdCSdJFOrbqdrgeG07mccagv9iR0fY1DS4xCV0Ds6PQg24Fd2Q7Z 7nFPEpLrzwSehE/rplYMb7ijDS+5jhPAaWezntgYszLNPaRaOBcA2TnHb2vWb4Lzz109 98nMYqo1RQqQawBJPt6gZ6LtyBzK0w67wrc5I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FUPakzeneDM+Nheg0pa/bSf3Tt/0+yaZP2Fi4jJtdgZ8kx6Wbbxu2dNdR5jtDJYf82 G2qly0X4LE1vCW6oO0l/cr/qoIGz8DzU/9qroY/juV5xJObgbmDc0jTLetskrvhNxIzL hnp9r4h4GWl+8cg4J69RA7yIDNtL43tGF9jVo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.67.31 with SMTP id u31mr1959036muk.71.1261181818267; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:16:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560912181518i133ea386s336a99cbc23fbf6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181211o485199adj246be26f7ce5e368@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181227j40b5b65didcef9b757ce87df0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181357y2ba48da3rf9190d51c3ed9690@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181518i133ea386s336a99cbc23fbf6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:58 -0500 Message-ID: <8a20e9f70912181616q662f6f1fv106a73480a82fb4c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: The New Method From: Jameson Orndorff To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16710 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jtorndorff@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list > I don't see the advantage of holding off on "cu". Forgetting "cu" is > probably the most common mistake that beginners make. I think the best > way to present terminators is to write sentences initially as "lo > mlatu [ku] cu blabi [vau]", showing both that the terminator is there, > and that it is elidable. Or maybe I just like that method because > that's how they were taught to me, and it always seemed very clear. I can buy that. Different things definitely work for different people. I'm sure some of my personal experience (and thus bias) has leaked into my method of teaching - I've been dodging the things that were hard to grasp at first. It may not be necessarily easier to learn terminators how I teach them, but it sure has been easier for me to teach them how I teach them. :) The whole tanru-unit-maybe-a-selbri-but-not-really-one thing has been a sticking point. I like this new method but it does still seem to be a little bit disingenuous in teaching what selbri *actually* are. Adam was certainly better at explaining what I was trying to get at than I was. (Thanks, xalbo!) > If we had enough students, we could try a lot of variations.  Teaching the > terminators as an actual part of the construct, which can in some cases be > omitted if doing so doesn't cause a different parse, does seem to produce much > better results than teaching them as something extra that needs to be added at > odd times. I'm trying my best to recruit {rau tadni}! I think a solid community effort and a bit of testing and flexibility can put our current collective efforts into a coherent and solid teaching medium. While I may be championing it, I'm definitely not the only man behind the movement. (As much as I'd like to take credit for it...) xalbo, donri, all of my other co-teachers and of course my ever-so-patient students deserve just as much credit as I do. Thanks everyone for your feedback on the structure! Anyone have any comments about the layout idea I had for the website? To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.