From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 18 19:01:00 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLpYx-0003Cg-Nk for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:01:00 -0800 Received: from mail-pw0-f47.google.com ([209.85.160.47]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLpYV-0002Wt-DR for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:00:36 -0800 Received: by pwi1 with SMTP id 1so2558358pwi.26 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:00:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=UeyX8idwPURBAG6daMYHwtMzqUJ1VrDTCLSm3qWFR5s=; b=KyHx5tvdkdS4uHWRptFCXyQzcvSiI/d3FrmbOUWjh6iShKAqAqbJxV4t4MIsVehl55 RfyhFcZudN6V0S/+D4k71mKIsbb2qIdfL1UjMAlaxUUXjyf9aB+Tlv0Agf1OremAwjSq FO4J0swS8yNgCKIMw/hrzL6OmdpOIazI5JRts= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=QgsXJ2zSuhHCnHL/VChSaNPvGoGmwejs9PGfSHBpAKdJVXmgO4EOSfOFTnvj1rkUen ijwRJzbceSLCCHqP5Qp2lHc2rebYPMBUeYsCeUji8bEBGIcKgk0UGhkWxNhYDmzz6l5v lMcL9ZxiXpYObQCI0ZI0cEZqis/LDlnzyCmG0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.1.37 with SMTP id 37mr2996100wfa.287.1261191625069; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:00:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8a20e9f70912181024t29e56190u762c85c8373e0c6a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181211o485199adj246be26f7ce5e368@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181227j40b5b65didcef9b757ce87df0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181357y2ba48da3rf9190d51c3ed9690@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560912181518i133ea386s336a99cbc23fbf6a@mail.gmail.com> <8a20e9f70912181616q662f6f1fv106a73480a82fb4c@mail.gmail.com> From: Oren Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:00:05 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e550912181900m580ed99fj505d0cb1626fab27@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: The New Method To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b251ce568b047b0c0e31 X-archive-position: 16714 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00504502b251ce568b047b0c0e31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Interested in the site layout as well, although all I see is this brief set of specs: zoi As for the web-based lessons, I had the idea of writing out lessons in this form (teaching more or less the full grammar in its basics) with one pass and branding it "Level 1". "Level 2" will then be available to the user as a direct overlay on the existing material. That is to say, that by checking a box on the website or something, they can cause new text to mix in with the existing lessons (probably of a different color). So the introduction chapter will have the same Level 1 text, but will also expand upon those ideas and possibly introduce more terminology for level 2. The {lo} / {la} chapter can expand to detail {le} and the other use of {la} as well as inner / outer quantifiers in level 2. The NU chapter can explain some of the finer points of NU and some of the other ones, {ni}, {ka}, {se du'u} vs. {du'u}, etc. Level 3 will just be another overlay with the absolute full detail of the language. li'u ...I don't really see Google Wave as the solution for this, even with the supposed freedom of 'inviting bots' into waves. I know it's 'cutting edge' but it's also exclusive (you still need to be invited), and not terribly accessible (even tech-savvy people find it tricky to navigate, and not all lojban students will be tech-savvy!) I've actually chewed on the idea of a lojban-learning website for a while now, basically using the same premise as your above specifications; that there would be 'individualized' lessons of various difficulty that drew from lessons that users had already studied. The way I envisioned this was some Drupal-ish content-driven site like this: 1) content type: vocab word (mostly gismu) --- contains formal definition --- contains moderator-added notes for newbs mu'a xamgu x1 (object/event) is good/beneficial/nice/[acceptable] for x2 by standard x3 this means "good," but really, you should use a more descriptive word, cmon! 2) content type: examples (used in lessons) --- contains sentence --- contains gloss --- contains translation --- contains note mu'a mi xamgu 'I' 'good/beneficial' I'm beneficial Note: this doesn't mean "I'm doing well!" 3) content type: grammar point (mostly cmavo) --- links to any dependent words (i.e. lo... ku would link to lo and ku) --- grammar visualization (text) --- grammar gloss --- grammar note --- links to any number of example sentences to demonstrate usage mu'a link1: lo link2: ku {lo ... ku} " ...(noun)... " This means some real instance of something. Note: this doesn't mean necessarily plural. ex: (links to example sentence, content type 2) 4) content type: lesson point --- title (i.e. "Make a sentence: fill in some sumti.") --- intro --- link to grammar point --- explanation mu'a intro: "Well, you know there's place structure, but how do you fill in those places? We need to tag the sumti with some lo's and ku's! Right on!" link: grammar point, content type 3 explanation: "We need these to make sure we know where arguments begin and end. Otherwise we'd just have run-on tanru." 5) content type: lesson template --- title (something like "the basics: you, me, and bridi") --- segways 1...n --- lesson points 1...n This last content type would be optional in my book, but would allow for long, structured lesson design like what's going on on the wave. I think these are great references and certainly some people prefer this type of study, so they're good to keep. But I also think that if a user has gone through a set of 'lesson points' they could be presented with a list of lesson titles (like the above "What's an attitudinal?") that are automatically selected by the amount of 'new' material in the lesson. Each lesson point would be treated like a blog entry, and so people could see the latest updates, browse by title etc, but also have the option of doing sequential 'chapters.' I hope that was clear... welcome feedback! mu'o mi'e .ku'us On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 09:44, Matt Arnold wrote: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Jameson Orndorff > wrote: > > Thanks everyone for your feedback on the structure! Anyone have any > > comments about the layout idea I had for the website? > > Sorry, can you point me to that? -Eppcott > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --00504502b251ce568b047b0c0e31 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interested in the site layout as well, although all I see = is this brief set of specs:

zoi

As for the web-based lessons,= I had the idea of writing out lessons in this form (teaching more or less the full grammar in its basics) with one pass and branding it "Level 1". "Level 2" will= then be available to the user as a direct overlay on the existing material. That is to say, that by checking a box on the website or something, they can cause new text to mix in with the existing lessons (probably of a different color). So the introduction chapter will have the same Level 1 text, but will also expand upon those ideas and possibly introduce more terminology for level 2. The {lo} / {la} chapter can expand to detail {le} and the other use of {la} as well as inner / outer quantifiers in level 2. The NU chapter can explain some of the finer points of NU and some of the other ones, {ni}, {ka}, {se du'u} vs. {du'u}, etc. Level 3 will just be another overlay with the absolute full detail of the language.

li'u

...I don't really s= ee Google Wave as the solution for this, even with the supposed freedom of = 'inviting bots' into waves. I know it's 'cutting edge' = but it's also exclusive (you still need to be invited), and not terribl= y accessible (even tech-savvy people find it tricky to navigate, and not al= l lojban students will be tech-savvy!)

I've actually chewed on the idea of a lojban-learning website for a= while now, basically using the same premise as your above specifications; = that there would be 'individualized' lessons of various difficulty = that drew from lessons that users had already studied. The way I envisioned= this was some Drupal-ish content-driven site like this:

1) content type: vocab word (mostly gismu)
--- contains formal defin= ition
--- contains moderator-added notes for newbs

mu'a
xa= mgu
x1 (object/event) is good/beneficial/nice/[acceptable] for x2 by sta= ndard x3
this means "good," but really, you should use a more descriptive = word, cmon!

2) content type: examples (used in lessons)
--- conta= ins sentence
--- contains gloss
--- contains translation
--- conta= ins note

mu'a
mi xamgu
'I' 'good/beneficial'
I'= m beneficial
Note: this doesn't mean "I'm doing well!"=

3) content type: grammar point (mostly cmavo)
--- links to any dependent words (i.e. lo... ku would link to lo and ku)--- grammar visualization (text)
--- grammar gloss
--- grammar note<= br> --- links to any number of example sentences to demonstrate usage

mu= 'a
link1: lo
link2: ku
{lo ... ku}
"<some> ...(n= oun)... <end-some>"
This means some real instance of somethin= g.
Note: this doesn't mean necessarily plural.
ex: (links to example se= ntence, content type 2)

4) content type: lesson point
--- title (= i.e. "Make a sentence: fill in some sumti.")
--- intro
--- link to grammar point
--- explanation

mu'a
intro: &quo= t;Well, you know there's place structure, but how do you fill in those = places? We need to tag the sumti with some lo's and ku's! Right on!= "
link: grammar point, content type 3
explanation: "We need these to = make sure we know where arguments begin and end. Otherwise we'd just ha= ve run-on tanru."

5) content type: lesson template
--- title= (something like "the basics: you, me, and bridi")
--- segways 1...n
--- lesson points 1...n

This last content type = would be optional in my book, but would allow for long, structured lesson d= esign like what's going on on the wave. I think these are great referen= ces and certainly some people prefer this type of study, so they're goo= d to keep. But I also think that if a user has gone through a set of 'l= esson points' they could be presented with a list of lesson titles (lik= e the above "What's an attitudinal?") that are automatically = selected by the amount of 'new' material in the lesson. Each lesson= point would be treated like a blog entry, and so people could see the late= st updates, browse by title etc, but also have the option of doing sequenti= al 'chapters.'

I hope that was clear... welcome feedback!

mu'o mi'e .ku= 'us

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 09:44, Ma= tt Arnold <m= att.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Jameson Orndorff <jtorndorff@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your feedback on the structure! Anyone have any > comments about the layout idea I had for the website?

Sorry, can you point me to that? -Eppcott


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


--00504502b251ce568b047b0c0e31-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.