From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Dec 21 08:32:11 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMlB4-0003Q9-LM for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:32:11 -0800 Received: from mail-pw0-f47.google.com ([209.85.160.47]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMl9g-0002gl-JU for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:30:49 -0800 Received: by pwi1 with SMTP id 1so3802988pwi.26 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:30:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=FFXV8L6gSsTd5hNzyUb6vMtf0U+0Y9Cw/BklPfqw7uM=; b=eDUqz2OQa4Ab6c0+srK3s572LZMO0n5Vm1k4lQi2V+hwEgUX34RnVkE+2T0tVtlj6h sxPJX7/3tV//dFg1b3iVDqdeeWsz0Caospuq1szHfixaZySWBTo/l/9x6jivaE6ku7PQ AcsOSEl8VY+xxG8CtuSWOOPquxTn/EORggp2I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=vvoqUAHxxR+7aXFq5scPqzMV/qiuoLTGZXkyX2yRfMK7cYPmL64ctKWX1bLOrWDMib r1kl/y+Av6YhqUrIqMvr8xA8JYU45C/eDKK6F8crY80OCYxNisUhlQdy2kgYVjvzx9+w Hj/RIhSfKA+v2HNvLwlvOR294DH3BgJL4NfSU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.74.7 with SMTP id w7mr5001232wfa.149.1261413038293; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:30:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <27513e550912210823n6ab20e3ag35dad2cd59a11395@mail.gmail.com> References: <702226df0912210730i37f4f966xc4f39d6e0a7623d8@mail.gmail.com> <27513e550912210808s2a9215a7kebcf109fd35fcb02@mail.gmail.com> <27513e550912210812m11bdb70eh94aedf91ab140639@mail.gmail.com> <27513e550912210823n6ab20e3ag35dad2cd59a11395@mail.gmail.com> From: Oren Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:30:18 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e550912210830u5d6e9c7chc22836f7c7cb64c0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: interlingua translation and first-order logic To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e1fb2610019d047b3f9c6e X-archive-position: 16727 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --001636e1fb2610019d047b3f9c6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *sorry if I'm double-posting* As for where 'getting computers understanding predicate logic' is, I'm not sure what to say, but I always thought that first-order predicate logic was the foundation of declarative languages like prolog. Anyhow, as I understand the state of Machine Translation, everyone is investigating hybrid models of various dynamic programming algorithms to raise BLEU scores-- everyone's invested in the statistical (i.e. NOT interlingual) approach, and trying to figure out how to maximize performance. I think that there would be real advantages to using lojban as an interlingual medium, instead of essentially trying to imitate humans through machine learning, but when you have huge corpora of bilingual (or better) natural language data and virtually no bilingual corpora with lojban, it's just infeasible. There were a few attempts to use Esperanto for that purpose a while back (even before this paper), and no one seems to cite them, except as failures. Here's a really good up-to-date intro to MT: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYZKIeNnTBe2ZGd4azRrZm1fNTI2ZnpnYmRrZ2g And a powerpoint version with lots of diagrams: http://people.csail.mit.edu/people/koehn/publications/tutorial2003.pdf Here's the origin of those two documents, if you're interested in more: http://www.statmt.org/ --001636e1fb2610019d047b3f9c6e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
*sorry if I'm double-posting*

As for where 'getting computers understanding predicate logic' is, I'm
not sure what to say, but I always thought that first-order predicate
logic was the foundation of declarative languages like prolog.

Anyhow, as I understand the state of Machine Translation,
everyone is investigating hybrid models of various dynamic
programming algorithms to raise BLEU scores-- everyone's invested in
the statistical (i.e. NOT interlingual) approach, and trying to figure
out how to maximize performance. I think that there would be real
advantages to using lojban as an interlingual medium, instead of
essentially trying to imitate humans through machine learning, but
when you have huge corpora of bilingual (or better) natural language
data and virtually no bilingual corpora with lojban, it's just
infeasible. There were a few attempts to use Esperanto for that
purpose a while back (even before this paper), and no one seems to
cite them, except as failures.

Here's a really good up-to-date intro to MT:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYZKIeNnTBe2ZGd4azRrZm1fNTI2ZnpnYmRrZ2g

And a powerpoint version with lots of diagrams:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/people/koehn/publications/tutorial2003.pdf

Here's the origin of those two documents, if you're interested in more:
http://www.statmt.org/
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