From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Dec 21 08:10:42 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMkqG-0008H0-Dc for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:10:42 -0800 Received: from mail-pz0-f193.google.com ([209.85.222.193]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMkoP-0007YA-VQ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:08:51 -0800 Received: by pzk31 with SMTP id 31so3575496pzk.28 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:08:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=DGj6AM8ueFvkVTM3r90uoPleSzoHSoU6M7XXmcgek38=; b=ZHj+yOowPGHt614OL5Zv1tmobACdKCf4iZM85KtEEqgfIJU+430DXOsspUizWcmB2O qWGsmSxBal2I1TX8TDlNdKIARrMb05cAbXDTidruBJqdEsCAooUEhwdu6kgs+GXWqHpR qQO/lDJhZK3PDQZT2/5Gkse+2ciHsMaNKKaAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=EU5JLlSL/59w8JrKxARvknnSuf2clHGNA5EbBWK9x3jed3GlBQzm5qbLkKQekHavFq FVStyJo3edCpuBFar7dNq9FuMJY8m0vQxBrb6b5b7FYo8oiI0+dLfHpU5wKjvY6qSYgl 5tTFzryhkukP+IyhnrDBLy2ogqvdhBFaPq+40= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.1.37 with SMTP id 37mr4895641wfa.287.1261411719840; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:08:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <702226df0912210730i37f4f966xc4f39d6e0a7623d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <702226df0912210730i37f4f966xc4f39d6e0a7623d8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:08:39 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: fa3095d7f68de4ea Message-ID: <27513e550912210808s2a9215a7kebcf109fd35fcb02@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: interlingua translation and first-order logic From: =?UTF-8?B?55m95p2+IE9yZW4=?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 16730 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: baisong@gvbchina.org.cn Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list I had a brief research position at university of Rochester (NY state) under Dan Gildea, where they have a close-knit AI, computational linguistics and neurological programs. I worked on a CYK decoder for Chinese English machine translation, and the first several weeks of my research were basically coming to terms with the history Machine translation outlined in that paper; the rise of computational linguistics in the 50s and 60s and then the adaptation to statistical models in the 80s and 90s. As for where 'getting computers understanding predicate logic' is, I'm not sure what to say, but I always thought that first-order predicate logic was the foundation of declarative languages like prolog. Anyhow, the state of the program at U of R (which I'm told is pretty advanced) is investigating hybrid models of various dynamic programming algorithms to raise BLEU scores-- everyone's invested in the statistical (i.e. NOT interlingual) approach, and trying to figure out how to maximize performance. I think that there would be real advantages to using lojban as an interlingual medium, instead of essentially trying to imitate humans through machine learning, but when you have huge corpora of bilingual (or better) natural language data and virtually no bilingual corpora with lojban, it's just infeasible. There were a few attempts to use Esperanto for that purpose a while back (even before this paper), and no one seems to cite them, except as failures. Here's a really good up-to-date intro to MT: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYZKIeNnTBe2ZGd4azRrZm1fNTI2ZnpnYmRrZ2g And a powerpoint version with lots of diagrams: http://people.csail.mit.edu/people/koehn/publications/tutorial2003.pdf mu'o mi'e .ku'us. On 2009-12-21, Jon "Top Hat" Jones wrote: > I recently came across > thispaper, which > discusses various methods of machine translation methods. In it > it is mentioned that computers are not able to understand first-order (i.e. > predicate) logic. Since the paper is nearly 2 decades old, I was wondering > if anyone here knows what progress there has been in making it > understandable by computers. > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.