From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Dec 21 08:14:03 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMktW-0000XR-Lc for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:14:02 -0800 Received: from mail-px0-f198.google.com ([209.85.216.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMksL-0008ON-5e for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:12:59 -0800 Received: by pxi36 with SMTP id 36so3543416pxi.26 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:12:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bWrTFJawfVKHGEOT2NcPFeTLeE+JVp2q6OwLKWAIJkA=; b=reV1O3HbZbdDz4HsuKnUOnYYHKA7IX0bbxEFNH0BuDkUfu45K0abp7DWea1DEjsMZr ecTcqQuQ+2zE2rQfGXZBDssmfK1QRzVZHyY0suauIhiJKN6OPQ27zOA/d1wU8Vn6X0q0 yClCbaZivPUEOxJwWqd0xi8mKf4B6eDoh+mRI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=mm83YAOZxyGGDWKdT0p6dAZDYZuO2nqQvAyMARr9hy8kNJXh5/XFabMH5rZTs72N/o +J07AAUAa3Hj+I/GK2g8ctxPv4PPh990KbRL9G4BpAvhuklbHvGVL3MEhNfCowOAE1cg kQUVa3AU7gxcP2ku5pJK6mTVgDi0x/2jqlUFI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.249.2 with SMTP id w2mr4891294wfh.198.1261411963091; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:12:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <27513e550912210808s2a9215a7kebcf109fd35fcb02@mail.gmail.com> References: <702226df0912210730i37f4f966xc4f39d6e0a7623d8@mail.gmail.com> <27513e550912210808s2a9215a7kebcf109fd35fcb02@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:12:43 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8f6f7f730e155f79 Message-ID: <27513e550912210812m11bdb70eh94aedf91ab140639@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: interlingua translation and first-order logic From: =?UTF-8?B?55m95p2+IE9yZW4=?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 16731 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: baisong@gvbchina.org.cn Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Wow, sorry for those typos! (typoes?) Here's the origin of those two documents, if you're interested in more: http://www.statmt.org/ On 2009-12-21, 白松 Oren wrote: > I had a brief research position at university of Rochester (NY state) > under Dan Gildea, where they have a close-knit AI, computational > linguistics and neurological programs. I worked on a CYK decoder for > Chinese English machine translation, and the first several weeks of my > research were basically coming to terms with the history Machine > translation outlined in that paper; the rise of computational > linguistics in the 50s and 60s and then the adaptation to statistical > models in the 80s and 90s. > > As for where 'getting computers understanding predicate logic' is, I'm > not sure what to say, but I always thought that first-order predicate > logic was the foundation of declarative languages like prolog. > > Anyhow, the state of the program at U of R (which I'm told is pretty > advanced) is investigating hybrid models of various dynamic > programming algorithms to raise BLEU scores-- everyone's invested in > the statistical (i.e. NOT interlingual) approach, and trying to figure > out how to maximize performance. I think that there would be real > advantages to using lojban as an interlingual medium, instead of > essentially trying to imitate humans through machine learning, but > when you have huge corpora of bilingual (or better) natural language > data and virtually no bilingual corpora with lojban, it's just > infeasible. There were a few attempts to use Esperanto for that > purpose a while back (even before this paper), and no one seems to > cite them, except as failures. > > Here's a really good up-to-date intro to MT: > http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYZKIeNnTBe2ZGd4azRrZm1fNTI2ZnpnYmRrZ2g > > And a powerpoint version with lots of diagrams: > http://people.csail.mit.edu/people/koehn/publications/tutorial2003.pdf > > mu'o mi'e .ku'us. > > > On 2009-12-21, Jon "Top Hat" Jones wrote: >> I recently came across >> thispaper, which >> discusses various methods of machine translation methods. In it >> it is mentioned that computers are not able to understand first-order >> (i.e. >> predicate) logic. Since the paper is nearly 2 decades old, I was >> wondering >> if anyone here knows what progress there has been in making it >> understandable by computers. >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.