From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jan 03 21:11:57 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NRfET-0001bM-6U for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:11:57 -0800 Received: from mail-ew0-f224.google.com ([209.85.219.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NRfEM-0001Yn-Oq for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:11:56 -0800 Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so17605884ewy.26 for ; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:11:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7I4WenYq0iFXsdQCRUjFK8nkccPKekx/6Fl0ofqSIZQ=; b=HG29R0nM3rUP89+zvX6YMaWy317TS+aevPtzp0WiqoOmWzRiJWPZbIbdJKk61tGTec RJH9rgaQX9Io4g6a/JQe9JurB0WhC4JiZee+DB3s3UcX8Dx2S6JaSAEmvf7SYmlve5oV n/1R+w8W8RMnyNo9XlB7aUMc2fYUTSyVgdVZw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=omIK+nOvN0+ypF4+evpocPIOAidQKogOU3ZVhqPzn4ATD5DmgBOnYFc+mG2LGsUJwD 95zUqtj3RjzGuUAXlH0bh2O2Id/faRXdu3uD1B27doIKQ1N4TmgzzcMwLjbimasTbM2y HEkgBtiY8fl8tSgxmpq+mA3DXkkMBxGEpCsj0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.96.204 with SMTP id i12mr5016819ebn.9.1262581904163; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:11:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201001032258.19239.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <12ee707c1001031857l193fbcf7l5107a5e3dd4e88c8@mail.gmail.com> <201001032258.19239.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:11:44 +1100 Message-ID: <12ee707c1001032111r41ebe8ffk99d9bd6e741372bd@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Place structure of bijyjbu From: Geoff Hacker To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c59873e5c656047c4fc197 X-archive-position: 16783 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: geoff.hacker@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --001636c59873e5c656047c4fc197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, except that that would then mean a table-office, which is also unintuitive. The word describes a kind of table, not a kind of office. And the x1 place of jubme is also the logical first place of the lujvo, which I think would also be more consistent with bijyjbu, even according to the jvojva, IIRC. Besides, I didn't think the jvojva were that rigid, if I recall Nick Nicholas's paper on the "rules" of lujvo construction, assuming that it hasn't changed since I read it. Ah, ma'agani. A nice, clean type-4 fu'ivla, I take it. Geoff 2010/1/4 Pierre Abbat > On Sunday 03 January 2010 21:57:13 Geoff Hacker wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I just looked up "desk" in the "current" version of the jvoste (it is > > "bijyjbu") and do not think that its place structure is very > user-friendly: > > > > x1 =3D jubme1 (table), x2 =3D jubme2 (table material), x3 =3D jubme3 (l= eg), x4 > =3D > > briju2 (office worker) > > If I talk about a desk in an office, I am really highly unlikely to be > > referring to it in the context of what material or legs it has. I am fa= r > > more likely to be saying that it is so-and-so's desk, and maybe after > that > > further details about the office in which the desk appears, so I would > have > > thought a more logical place structure was: > > > > x1 =3D jubme1 (table), x2 =3D briju2 (office worker) x3 =3D briju1 (off= ice) x4 > =3D > > briju3 (office location) and then *maybe* x5 =3D jubme2 (table material= - > so > > I could say, e.g., that it is a bijyjbu be fu lo [mahogany].) > > > > What do people think, and how would the jvoste get changed if a differe= nt > > consensus were reached? > > I think the place structure should be kept as it is, for jvojva reasons. = An > appropriate word for the place structure you're thinking of is "jbubriju"= . > By > the way, mahogany is ma'agni - easy enough? > > Pierre > > -- > La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre. > Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --001636c59873e5c656047c4fc197 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, except that that would then mean a table-office, which is also un= intuitive. The word describes a kind of table, not a kind of office. And th= e x1 place of jubme is also the logical first place of the lujvo, which I t= hink would also be more consistent with bijyjbu, even according to the jvoj= va, IIRC. Besides, I didn't think the jvojva were that rigid, if I reca= ll Nick Nicholas's paper on the "rules" of lujvo construction= , assuming that it hasn't changed since I read it.
Ah, ma'agani. A nice, clean type-4 fu'ivla, I take it.
=A0
Geoff
2010/1/4 Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
On Sunday 03 January 2010 21:57:13 Geoff Hacker wrote:> Hi all,
>
> I just looked up "desk" in the &quo= t;current" version of the jvoste (it is
> "bijyjbu") a= nd do not think that its place structure is very user-friendly:
>
> x1 =3D jubme1 (table), x2 =3D jubme2 (table material), x3 =3D = jubme3 (leg), x4 =3D
> briju2 (office worker)
> If I talk about= a desk in an office, I am really highly unlikely to be
> referring t= o it in the context of what material or legs it has. I am far
> more likely to be saying that it is so-and-so's desk, and maybe af= ter that
> further details about the office in which the desk appears= , so I would have
> thought a more logical place structure was:
>
> x1 =3D jubme1 (table), x2 =3D briju2 (office worker) x3 =3D br= iju1 (office) x4 =3D
> briju3 (office location) and then *maybe* x5 = =3D jubme2 (table material - so
> I could say, e.g., that it is a bij= yjbu be fu lo [mahogany].)
>
> What do people think, and how would the jvoste get changed if = a different
> consensus were reached?

I think the = place structure should be kept as it is, for jvojva reasons. An
appropri= ate word for the place structure you're thinking of is "jbubriju&q= uot;. By
the way, mahogany is ma'agni - easy enough?

Pierre

--
La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre.
Le s= el dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org=
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


--001636c59873e5c656047c4fc197-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.