From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jan 03 21:52:39 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NRfrr-0003QZ-8k for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:52:39 -0800 Received: from mail-px0-f198.google.com ([209.85.216.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NRfrl-0003Nl-7a for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:52:37 -0800 Received: by pxi36 with SMTP id 36so9985716pxi.26 for ; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:52:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=XqFHYImuw8327CTFd/J06aVhLl0eiNFNihrPrSBLfu8=; b=NuKN9+o3pZr6QTBEkiUs6yIUUSHLW7pi4E2bmpWU49Tqv557OjDQhtUJl7KEqynGdP QUHw/DuzU+lYv3m2P4KFQ5bfqSMBSUAVXFcVTSgpTySrWaPGd74bibFqKVjCX3tgKEYY NLBrspWu1aDSwAG3kdPXr+LpVuf1a/lpBRrcM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=XlxP6g/Ur7KJ8HY5V+iMnDKc3wuds/AOixmvuRIzyJfEBBfipeVSVLcTFn2PuQkT85 ICgI5PDHEaTRtNFyQk31Y5GsddBJWR87o62sYZRw1bryaA+A0aLwrj4UTwy1GFyGe/4d lLFMGGKRq2RxdzmeMW6JpLQkw6xEqy5vMGBwA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.60.18 with SMTP id i18mr3701973wfa.111.1262584347122; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:52:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <175716.17467.qm@web50408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <425e4ac21001031952t22834298oa24977c0eef72d35@mail.gmail.com> <175716.17467.qm@web50408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Oren Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:52:07 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e551001032152p76aecf6fg281271b15e2959e6@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Initial impression To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502ad2082610d047c505356 X-archive-position: 16784 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00504502ad2082610d047c505356 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll join this naming tangent! I chose the lojban name {ku'us} because ku'u is the rafsi for ckunu (conifer), and my legal american name Oren is Hebrew (=D7=90=D7=95=D7=A8=D7= =9F) for pine tree. .ui .i ta'onai And I actually like the look of periods in front of attitudinals, because i= n my mind attitudinals are like punctuation marks. Well, except that by definition they don't punctuate so much as freely add attitude anywhere, bu= t in a sense they do replace certain 'punctuation marks,' for example when chatting, '!?!?!?' can sometimes be replaced with .o'onai co'o On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 13:03, Lindar Greenwood wro= te: > > I do wonder about this as Lojban grows and expands, though. I > > > wouldn't be surprised if people stop doing this to names eventually, > > and just use people's names when talking... > > > > Chris > > When writing, I'll tend to either arbitrarily lojbanise a name, but if a > name is sufficiently unusual to the Lojbanic-ear, I'll usually use (WARNI= NG: > EXPERIMENTAL CMAVO FOLLOWS. USE WITH CAUTION AS CMAVO MAY VIOLENTLY COMBU= ST > UPON CONTACT WITH PARSERS, TEXT BOOKS, AND SLABU PRENU.) la'oi *name* as = it > makes life easier. > > We butcher names because only 'real words' can end in vowels, so to make = it > absolutely clear, names have to end in consonants. Honestly, any Asian > country will make you do the same thing upon registering as a visitor or > resident. The general policy in jbogugde is to either grin and bear > lojbanising your name, or pick a new name that fits Lojban morphology. Fo= r > example, our good friend Dag from Sweden goes by the name *{la donri}, wh= ich > is an actual translation of his name to Lojban, which I would highly > encourage. If I were to translate my name (it fits morphology unaltered, = so > why bother changing it?), it would be *{la sanga}. We also have people th= at > pick creative names for their Lojbanistanian green card, like kribacr (a > clever altering of kribacru), clsn (our friend Mark Shoulsen), selckiku > (whom we affectionately call *{selkik}, and if I remember correctly, this= is > a cute nod to his le speni/le pampe'o by the name of ckiku), bancus (one = of > many > names that looks like it could be two rafsi stuck together to form a nam= e > in valid morphology, or a gismu with a letter stuck on the end, so it cou= ld > be read as bancu + s [an exeeding thing] or ban + cus [language-expressin= g > thing]) and our resident JB and best example of grinning and bearing the > painful lojbanisation, djanatyn (Jonathan Strickland, I believe, who we > usually call 'djan'). > > I think it's all in the spirit of fun, and having some kind of Lojbanic > name is just being part of the Lojbanic culture along with everybody else= . > It's just part of the culture, and I don't think anybody that's been part= of > the community for any decent length of time actually wants to change the > naming convention. I doubt you'd go to Japan and bitch about having to > Japanify your name (it's actually a law there, if you're a citizen you ha= ve > to have a Japanese name, even if it's just Japanified and written in > katakana) because that's just how things are, so why come to jbogugde and > grip about having to Lojbanify your name? Roll with it and come up with > something unique! I highly encourage you to translate your name to Lojban= as > we have very few (one?) people with gismu names, and I'd love to see more= of > those. > > As far as using 'h' goes, I hate the idea, and it confuses me to no end > when people use it, especially since h is the capitalised form of ' in > Lojban letterals. As it has been mentioned before, it isn't even really a > letter, plus it helps when reading words to visually identify lujvo and C= V'V > cmavo. It's how we do things, so get over it. =3DP > > Also, the denpa bu (full-stop) is just part of the writing system. It isn= 't > so much a glottal stop as an indication that you should stop making sound= s, > and all things are written as they are spoken, so it really is a letter. = la > *pause* lindar *pause* is really the appropriate way to say it in Lojban, > and for some things like {zo'e ,e zo'e ,e zo'e co'e} it helps to remind t= he > speaker to say "zo-heh eh zo-heh eh zo-heh sho-heh" and not "zo-heeeehh > zo-heeehhh zo-heeehhh sho-heh", because were the pause not absolutely > explicit, one might be inclined to run the two E sounds together and make > them sound really long, which ends up being interpreted as {zo'e zo'e zo'= e > co'e} (because extended vowel sounds mean nothing other than a possible > indication of inebriation in the speaker), which means something -entirel= y- > different (something does something to/with/at something from something, > etc. etc., rather than the intended 'something and something and somethin= g > do > something'). So because there is an -explicit- stop there, it's written, > because absolutely everything said is written, and everything written is > said. > > Anyway, there's my two cents. Forgive me if I'm slightly incorrect on > certain matters. In fact, I'll put a disclaimer! > > DISCLAIMER: The views expressed here are of a slightly off-kilter musicia= n > and not of the LLG or any of its affiliates. These views do not necessari= ly > reflect the views of the general Lojban community, its members, their > mothers, or their pet hamsters (should they own any). If any more informe= d > parties wish to correct any of the information transmitted in this e-mail= , > please do so and promptly make fun of all parties involved by insulting > their intelligence and the way they dress. This transmission is hereby > released by the GNU/Lindar license as Free flaming fuel and may be edited= to > make the author look like an idiot. > > <3<3<3 > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --00504502ad2082610d047c505356 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll join this naming tangent!

I ch= ose the lojban name {ku'us} because ku'u is the rafsi for ckunu (co= nifer), and my legal american name Oren is Hebrew (=D7=90=D7=95=D7=A8=D7=9F= ) for pine tree. .ui

.i ta'onai

And I actually = like the look of periods in front of attitudinals, because in my mind attit= udinals are like punctuation marks. Well, except that by definition they do= n't punctuate so much as freely add attitude anywhere, but in a sense t= hey do replace certain 'punctuation marks,' for example when chatti= ng, '!?!?!?' can sometimes be replaced with .o'onai

co'o

On Mo= n, Jan 4, 2010 at 13:03, Lindar Greenwood <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrot= e:
> I do wonder about th= is as Lojban grows and expands, though. =C2=A0I

> wouldn't be surprised if people stop doing this to names eventuall= y,
> and just use people's names when talking...
>
> Chris

When writing, I'll tend to either arbitrarily lojbanise a name, b= ut if a name is sufficiently unusual to the Lojbanic-ear, I'll usually = use (WARNING: EXPERIMENTAL CMAVO FOLLOWS. USE WITH CAUTION AS CMAVO MAY VIO= LENTLY COMBUST UPON CONTACT WITH PARSERS, TEXT BOOKS, AND SLABU PRENU.) la&= #39;oi *name* as it makes life easier.

We butcher names because only 'real words' can end in vowels, so to= make it absolutely clear, names have to end in consonants. Honestly, any A= sian country will make you do the same thing upon registering as a visitor = or resident. The general policy in jbogugde is to either grin and bear lojb= anising your name, or pick a new name that fits Lojban morphology. For exam= ple, our good friend Dag from Sweden goes by the name *{la donri}, which is= an actual translation of his name to Lojban, which I would highly encourag= e. If I were to translate my name (it fits morphology unaltered, so why bot= her changing it?), it would be *{la sanga}. We also have people that pick c= reative names for their Lojbanistanian green card, like kribacr (a clever a= ltering of kribacru), clsn (our friend Mark Shoulsen), selckiku (whom we af= fectionately call *{selkik}, and if I remember correctly, this is a cute no= d to his le speni/le pampe'o by the name of ckiku), bancus (one of many=
=C2=A0names that looks like it could be two rafsi stuck together to form a = name in valid morphology, or a gismu with a letter stuck on the end, so it = could be read as bancu + s [an exeeding thing] or ban + cus [language-expre= ssing thing]) and our resident JB and best example of grinning and bearing = the painful lojbanisation, djanatyn (Jonathan Strickland, I believe, who we= usually call 'djan').

I think it's all in the spirit of fun, and having some kind of Lojbanic= name is just being part of the Lojbanic culture along with everybody else.= It's just part of the culture, and I don't think anybody that'= s been part of the community for any decent length of time actually wants t= o change the naming convention. I doubt you'd go to Japan and bitch abo= ut having to Japanify your name (it's actually a law there, if you'= re a citizen you have to have a Japanese name, even if it's just Japani= fied and written in katakana) because that's just how things are, so wh= y come to jbogugde and grip about having to Lojbanify your name? Roll with = it and come up with something unique! I highly encourage you to translate y= our name to Lojban as we have very few (one?) people with gismu names, and = I'd love to see more of those.

As far as using 'h' goes, I hate the idea, and it confuses me to no= end when people use it, especially since h is the capitalised form of '= ; in Lojban letterals. As it has been mentioned before, it isn't even r= eally a letter, plus it helps when reading words to visually identify lujvo= and CV'V cmavo. It's how we do things, so get over it. =3DP

Also, the denpa bu (full-stop) is just part of the writing system. It isn&#= 39;t so much a glottal stop as an indication that you should stop making so= unds, and all things are written as they are spoken, so it really is a lett= er. la *pause* lindar *pause* is really the appropriate way to say it in Lo= jban, and for some things like {zo'e ,e zo'e ,e zo'e co'e} = it helps to remind the speaker to say "zo-heh eh zo-heh eh zo-heh sho-= heh" and not "zo-heeeehh zo-heeehhh zo-heeehhh sho-heh", bec= ause were the pause not absolutely explicit, one might be inclined to run t= he two E sounds together and make them sound really long, which ends up bei= ng interpreted as {zo'e zo'e zo'e co'e} (because extended v= owel sounds mean nothing other than a possible indication of inebriation in= the speaker), which means something -entirely- different (something does s= omething to/with/at something from something, etc. etc., rather than the in= tended 'something and something and something do
=C2=A0something'). So because there is an -explicit- stop there, it'= ;s written, because absolutely everything said is written, and everything w= ritten is said.

Anyway, there's my two cents. Forgive me if I'm slightly incorrect = on certain matters. In fact, I'll put a disclaimer!

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed here are of a slightly off-kilter musician = and not of the LLG or any of its affiliates. These views do not necessarily= reflect the views of the general Lojban community, its members, their moth= ers, or their pet hamsters (should they own any). If any more informed part= ies wish to correct any of the information transmitted in this e-mail, plea= se do so and promptly make fun of all parties involved by insulting their i= ntelligence and the way they dress. This transmission is hereby released by= the GNU/Lindar license as Free flaming fuel and may be edited to make the = author look like an idiot.

<3<3<3






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with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


--00504502ad2082610d047c505356-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.