From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jan 13 06:31:46 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NV4G9-0003U5-Kb for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:31:46 -0800 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.148]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NV4Fq-0003MV-Rs for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:31:34 -0800 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so246348qwk.58 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:31:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Mhad8c+Et/OtYl8z/RxcPLOEKR7uiqCrR7E//t8pq7I=; b=QQU9zBy96nl9oPS+1Cjj0H402WasYsUzuJJknN+imByaKLUvpbAxc2Ly+VeuHihiEn NqfX5J7cE0RqU5Muom5orDcG6UGym5KfQysoVBgKOFNjUfJO11IO0XuH7f1wV5ielJMq ++ZiB9XuZG0cZX3gQbPEja5cGQtzyUEw5iBxk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=J2u9NXUrhtLfhN7ldjdS7FQvTS6k0h6mKlvt0OY5alvEBmDK0Kn52bAX8W6IFHHxOY viIK0uDZyAOyDkReDMu/6eF4quRCas/2HzB8k7DJU+okzhn1qbCx8190w93u9Dvbw/Ky sT07xHMCwHv4YI3j5Qqj43viItG6qovthiR+A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.3.230 with SMTP id 38mr448530vco.99.1263393085246; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:31:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5715b9301001130620n761fbe94j534f41fc6e52908d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9301001121232t715e8e69n265381f070ded8ce@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301001121321x3878127cwb56e277b8878756f@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561001121405o460c9b12k6decf80e3a044387@mail.gmail.com> <201001122213.19312.phma@phma.optus.nu> <925d17561001130429h731200edsd3b29fd0e5ffdc0d@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301001130620n761fbe94j534f41fc6e52908d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:31:25 -0500 Message-ID: <5715b9301001130631x23424333r17eeecbcfafd1a9d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: shifting in tanru From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517573f8e0ecd85047d0ca022 X-archive-position: 16833 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --001517573f8e0ecd85047d0ca022 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable actually, after reading a bit more closely. xorxes, how do you get that only the first sumti goes into the selbri? I read: Any sumti which precede a selbri with an inverted tanru fill the places of the selbri (i.e., the places of the tertau) in the ordinary way. In Example 8.4 , ``mi'' fills the x1 plac= e of ``troci co klama'', which is the x1 place of ``troci''. The other places of the selbri remain unfilled. The trailing sumti ``le zarci'' and ``le zdani'' do not occupy selbri places, despite appearances. to mean that {ko'a ko'e broda brode ko'i} to mean that ko'a AND ko'e BOTH g= o into broda and ko'i goes into x2 of brode. On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > .uacai. So, this is what I was trying to get at with my question. I > didn't realize it only happened with {co} but thanks for asking the quest= ion > that I was thinking Pierre :) > > I can see the usefulness of it, but it does seem bizarre that in {ko'a ko= 'e > brode co broda ko'i ko'o}, ko'a goes in the x1 of brode and the rest all = go > into broda (starting from x2) with no visual cue to tell me that "ok, we'= ve > stopped filling in for brode, now we're filling in places for broda". > > 2010/1/13 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : >> > >> > So in "mi lo nu kargau le vorme lo nu darxi ri troci co klama le bartu= ", >> "le >> > bartu" is x2 of "klama" even though there are three arguments before >> "troci"? >> >> Yes, but I think you wanted: "mi lo nu kargau le vorme kei lo nu darxi >> ri cu troci co klama le bartu", otherwise there aren't three arguments >> before troci. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to >> lojban-list-request@lojban.org >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or i= f >> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >> >> > --001517573f8e0ecd85047d0ca022 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable actually, after reading a bit more closely. =A0xorxes, how do you get that = only the first sumti goes into the selbri? =A0I read:

Any sumti which precede a selbri with an inverted= tanru fill the places of the selbri (i.e., the places of the tertau) in th= e ordinary way. In=A0Example 8.4= , ``mi'' fills the x1 place of ``troci co klama'', which is= the x1 place of ``troci''. The other places of the selbri remain u= nfilled. The trailing sumti ``le zarci'' and ``le zdani'' d= o not occupy selbri places, despite appearances.

to mea= n that {ko'a ko'e broda brode ko'i} to mean that ko'a AND k= o'e BOTH go into broda and ko'i goes into x2 of brode.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:20 A= M, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
.uacai. =A0So, this is what I was trying to get at with my question. =A0I d= idn't realize it only happened with {co} but thanks for asking the ques= tion that I was thinking Pierre :)

I can see the usefuln= ess of it, but it does seem bizarre that in {ko'a ko'e brode co bro= da ko'i ko'o}, ko'a goes in the x1 of brode and the rest all go= into broda (starting from x2) with no visual cue to tell me that "ok,= we've stopped filling in for brode, now we're filling in places fo= r broda".=A0

2010/1/13 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@g= mail.com>

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>
> So in "mi lo nu kargau le vorme lo nu darxi ri troci co klama le = bartu", "le
> bartu" is x2 of "klama" even though there are three arg= uments before "troci"?

Yes, but I think you wanted: "mi lo nu kargau le vorme kei lo nu= darxi
ri cu troci co klama le bartu", otherwise there aren't three argum= ents
before troci.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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