From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 21 13:38:11 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NY4jC-0001tP-1t for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:38:10 -0800 Received: from mail-pw0-f47.google.com ([209.85.160.47]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NY4j6-0001lY-U1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:38:08 -0800 Received: by pwj10 with SMTP id 10so303547pwj.26 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:37:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=RyHGO3T+oIEAbhTPg8RdGoqy8FtQ35YPsVo4i8tr8Z8=; b=oW0ob6UBCo4eQsPufuHmiT7MXzd9Zy6P1CYlTwgb/yNV1TeCPj03wXzaciRy/APhQS qKTf9/xcIcmUW/jMVBatlIZQVSv4DPhEOmBNnqj9/FrTGvDnq5Tf3i+NerzFqqsqt6My 5TTxPqzNLX9TwKg/Ge8TfTSj/DjXydvW+/1w0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZhjufFC5BeDyUjunIvG7yq0lejwCtz+vSZZl7cDW7KVdVKvmnhkHukZzQEr4Sc55q7 qG98e2P3iXo8Ca5BUesFbC3AMIrLlSz3qpaZ4mhL6Mw1MRWYshhEFBjIa+DGWzzDH4Lz +Ftpnb8lfGWEklMit5z0GlkFMGTrZEfN0kTUM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.9.27 with SMTP id 27mr1355792wfi.241.1264109878610; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:37:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5715b9301001211330y36354477q3ae3e3049512152a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9301001211330y36354477q3ae3e3049512152a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:37:58 -0500 Message-ID: <96f789a61001211337v574cf03fo765cb2a89c6a2006@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: question about emphasis or something like it From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502afad458ad0047db38403 X-archive-position: 16850 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00504502afad458ad0047db38403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > How would lojban differentiate between "I'm surprised that you said 'that'" > (emphasis on 'that' as opposed to saying 'this') vs "I'm surprised that you > said 'that'" (emphasis on 'said' as opposed to 'wrote' or 'thought')? > > My first thought was {ba'e} but my understanding of {ba'e} is that it's > just there for emphasis and carries no additional semantic meaning (similar > to how {lo nanmu cu klama lo zarci} is semantically identical to {lo zarci > cu se klama lo nanmu}). And as I understand it the two sentences in English > mean entirely different things. They are not only different in their > emphasis. > > I'm not sure how clearly this question is coming through. It could > probably have stood to percolate in my head a while more but I don't want to > forget it (again). > > mi'e pafcribe > No, your first thought was exactly correct. ba'e emphasizes the next word, thereby singling it out as important. --gejyspa --00504502afad458ad0047db38403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Luke Be= rgen <lukeabe= rgen@gmail.com> wrote:
How would lojban differentiate between "I'm surprised that you sai= d 'that'" (emphasis on 'that' as opposed to saying = 9;this') vs "I'm surprised that you said 'that'" = (emphasis on 'said' as opposed to 'wrote' or 'thought&#= 39;)?

My first thought was {ba'e} but my understanding of {ba&= #39;e} is that it's just there for emphasis and carries no additional s= emantic meaning (similar to how {lo nanmu cu klama lo zarci} is=C2=A0semant= ically=C2=A0identical to {lo zarci cu se klama lo nanmu}). =C2=A0And as I u= nderstand it the two sentences in English mean entirely different things. = =C2=A0They are not only different in their emphasis.

I'm not sure how clearly this question is coming th= rough. =C2=A0It could probably have stood to=C2=A0percolate=C2=A0in my head= a while more but I don't want to forget it (again).

mi'e pafcribe

=C2=A0 No, your first thought was exactly correct.=C2= =A0 ba'e emphasizes the next word, thereby singling it out as important= .=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 -= -gejyspa
=C2=A0

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