From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Feb 23 04:35:54 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NjtzW-0002pd-IK for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:35:54 -0800 Received: from mail-pv0-f181.google.com ([74.125.83.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NjtzE-0002GE-PA for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:35:43 -0800 Received: by pvc30 with SMTP id 30so281282pvc.40 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:35:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=OOLl91+Pu+QT77S5XGd/158h8hAiPROm/wRWGXFyvGQ=; b=uGu7Ekvl4x7m0HXSQg2f2XSpnPCvKLUwVzSzPy3X9ZeMvHaZCY3ViaVFTfBIrbwa3/ 5XnjP+2e+3iD8oEKkae7PA5ucMiF2Q5WAaCXowSY4/gp8JKDP7OS/vYD1VHuCNM/76+O XjaOojmKLmhSqBbG+H/pf8f3EtU/QOlyAjmTY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=MM1iQqpXCd/mwDNa/6oKh41E4MC41x8MV9ndI+bKsbdyXsQMOFaDiGWDHIIPoc6750 4P1akFQx0RjaM6eNmHBjJTm96mCqzKY1EKkbFoSH6lfUP7RdqT+AyLrH+D50iCCKzhG1 bLNVt7qnnNni3N2hn64pX/XAYUGKK8bfxwtSY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.248.9 with SMTP id v9mr3078328wfh.308.1266928530353; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:35:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5715b9301002221045h726fbcaeu36140fc1b3f3b4e0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:35:30 -0500 Message-ID: <96f789a61002230435j250c43d2qd7c03a7bc9f8dd9e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: before or after From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502c9fc01ef3e048043c9a6 X-archive-position: 17006 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --00504502c9fc01ef3e048043c9a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Dag Odenhall wrote: > UI describe the preceding word, or the grammatical scope of that > structure. {pe'a mi donri} is all figurative: the scope is the scope > of the invisible {i}. {mi donri pe'a} scopes to {donri} and {la pe'a > donri cu donri} scopes {la donri} as would {la donri ku pe'a}. {pe'a} > also has a rafsi, which can't end a lujvo due to ending in a > consonant: {mi pevdo'i} probably means the same as {mi donri pe'a}. > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > I could swear that I've seen people use {pe'a} to say that the following > > word is figurative but I see in chapter 13 of The Book that it actually > > marks the previous word as figurative. This has come back to bite me a > > couple of times before with other words. Is there some good general rule > to > > make it easier to remember when something modifies the following word vs > the > > previous word? Are all of the selma'o at least consistent within > > themselves? (i.e. if one UI* marks the previous word do ALL UI* mark the > > previous word?) > > ki'e mi'e pafcribe > > > What you may be confusing it with is the words from the BAhE selma'o, ba'e and za'e, which describe the NEXT word as emphasized or nonce usage, respectively. (Which begs the question of what does "ba'e pe'a" means, but that's a question for another time. --gejyspa --00504502c9fc01ef3e048043c9a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Dag Ode= nhall <dag.o= denhall@gmail.com> wrote:
UI describe the preceding word, or the grammatical scope of that
structure. {pe'a mi donri} is all figurative: the scope is the scope of the invisible {i}. {mi donri pe'a} scopes to {donri} and {la pe'= a
donri cu donri} scopes {la donri} as would {la donri ku pe'a}. {pe'= a}
also has a rafsi, which can't end a lujvo due to ending in a
consonant: {mi pevdo'i} probably means the same as {mi donri pe'a}.=

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I could swear that I've seen people use {pe'a} to say that the= following
> word is figurative but I see in chapter 13 of The Book that it actuall= y
> marks the previous=C2=A0word as figurative. =C2=A0This has come back t= o bite me a
> couple of times before with other words. =C2=A0Is there some good gene= ral rule to
> make it easier to remember when something modifies the following word = vs the
> previous word? =C2=A0Are all of the selma'o at least consistent wi= thin
> themselves? =C2=A0(i.e. if one UI* marks the previous word do ALL UI* = mark the
> previous word?)
> =C2=A0ki'e mi'e pafcribe


=C2=A0 What you may be confusing it w= ith is the words from the BAhE selma'o, ba'e and za'e,=C2=A0 wh= ich describe the NEXT word as emphasized or nonce usage, respectively. (Whi= ch begs the question of what does "ba'e pe'a" means, but = that's a question for another time.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa


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