From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Feb 24 05:25:45 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NkHFI-0002is-Ft for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:25:44 -0800 Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NkHFB-0002gR-Cc for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:25:44 -0800 Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so3664361bwz.26 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:25:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=m0otixK4eDqEHLHzRhl2jjyRjumcd+qNyd0RPXa9biU=; b=l3HbRpSNgnP/sNwQpgmVkay9BKMi0zeyJRqqsK2yF9HBj5lWAS0JG/lYkiWkbxbCjg q+FkvtEncRE9padbg1+p210nFGrJEufy47qoYva4h714XQAYVIwmonvgDeMgRoa97OEk SSnBYWV4I74m3olmp/WbqWJZfulfMeR/Ywsac= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fbPir36zqXZgMMmYwmapk9j0semBghr+A/9X/4Tg4/qqB+NZQWLGwsHaCHqb/IhYp7 x4rb7LajCbUD4axpSW9FAA1L+H4aD5Y8HzGq/+/DJMAuiPqgDtFeQ4U37E/+gWileNI+ X74R0Z3PLMkJoV4p8RPaqN50P10rkyCYheEWE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.151.91 with SMTP id b27mr3060789bkw.110.1267017836847; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:23:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <96f789a61002240437w153886av7246a1c9c2a909e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050419104222.27410.qmail@web32110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5715b9301002221034v6b3b6e7atdc7de3a75e8f7ed8@mail.gmail.com> <201002222012.40119.phma@phma.optus.nu> <96f789a61002240437w153886av7246a1c9c2a909e4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:23:56 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17561002240523r22b8ea75rfd2c3551c6e3eab4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: To be polite in lojban. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 17020 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > >   The short answer is "it's never actually been used, so plainly no one > really is comfortable with it" Yes, that's the best answer. >    The longer answer #1 is "According to xorxes' opinion, as a member of the > BPFK, and expressed on the proposed definition page > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+Irrealis+Attitudinals, it should be > used as an offer: .e'o nai ko lebna lo titla > Here, have some candy." The reason I proposed that is that we don't really have anything else to mark something as an offer, and an offer is in some dimension the opposite of a request: Request: I'm asking you to please do: Offer: I'm not asking you, but please (feel free to) do: >   The longer answer #2 is I believe that "negative request" means an > expression of desire that something not happen: ".e'onai do citka sepi'o lo > degji" "I really wish you wouldn't eat with your fingers" That could also be an opposite of a request, but we already have a clear way to express that with "au ... na ...": .au do na citka sepi'o lo degji so "e'onai" for that is not really necessary. Neither "offer" nor "wish that not" are clear opposites of "e'o", so "e'onai" may remain unused, but if it is used I would prefer it to be for something that can't be expressed otherwise. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.