From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 05 06:47:42 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnYoX-00014r-FR for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:47:41 -0800 Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com ([74.125.82.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnYoS-00012k-46 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:47:41 -0800 Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18so2216903wwi.40 for ; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:47:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=psqMqHDzYis9c+mcU+XPxuD3gKrFKo1cY0ASAyD+2Gg=; b=mbUPd4Ea8YLsFW2oBhyys9G0ZQP5BFgDfJfeNGoAnm/xXT1ivaHkyrQ9MEih5B9epL Nf/bZP1I4QQ34mDATHuBn1UrWsNaxOXFA1F1wSbpNWYzWuwE/wPOR4WifM7sj8u1wEK/ x0+SGM18jhFl+Le6SGtY/h8iJTGu2u92WOHZM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Ru3XB5+gWjhep97O+G2NrNAAKUtCqzSexyImk2twvyPkUX0Y9ooeO1a+Mn7bxn/S+r qGopLea39FaA0BilNMvXSmAJ0xKpKhso/mf7zL8Majf0b3dVDoh9sMSqj18t4wpO/3/H VI/bw/qRBly1yOxMwFD0qwO7RHehetzuoD8DM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.87.133 with SMTP id y5mr164224wee.139.1267800449692; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:47:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <96f789a61003050644r54c7e84bp696cb2b785f67572@mail.gmail.com> References: <395141.17119.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <369994.71546.qm@web50404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <925d17561003041351u11a65d8fpadc799cd405f8291@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003041359u2e158b13gac898593a8311c1d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003041414w6122f0c4y757f43f70a9bbcd5@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003041442r613e933g80234426ff0d4cb5@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b951003041916n67235566jf7415ce90e4dc757@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003050434m7010e535rca50dd0e79eb79a6@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003050637s4aa32cd2k662f922fb648023e@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a61003050644r54c7e84bp696cb2b785f67572@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:47:29 -0700 Message-ID: <702226df1003050647kb8e1cdm3bdaa66fbbc8be30@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Fw: bridi tail negation From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d9a2c77332f804810ecb6a X-archive-position: 17095 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016e6d9a2c77332f804810ecb6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe the writer doesn't know that? It's the only reason I can think of tha= t makes sense. On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 7:44 AM, Michael Turniansky w= rote: > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > I would guess that the reason for the {se ... fa} bit was partly to > > emphasize the experience and partly to keep from having to figure out h= ow > to > > terminate {lonu zutse ne'i le ricyzda gi'enai tavla} > > > > ?? It just terminates with a single kei (which, if it was moved to > the front, wouldn't even be needed if cu was there.) > --gy > > > 2010/3/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:16 AM, MorphemeAddict > wrote: > >> > I once stated that the emphasis of the arguments changes when SE is > >> > used, > >> > but was told that SE does not cause such change in emphasis. It woul= d > be > >> > handy if it did. > >> > >> I think bringing an argument to the front does make it more topical. > >> But in this case, it was not really brought to the front, or it was > >> brought to the front only to be pushed back again with "fa": > >> > >> zanfri ko'a -> se zanfri fa ko'a > >> > >> So the difference in this case is not really about ko'a, but about > >> where the elided zo'e is: > >> > >> (zo'e) zanfri ko'a -> se zanfri fa ko'a (zo'e) > >> > >> In the second form the experiencer is perhaps even more irrelevant > >> than in the first form. > >> > >> mu'o mi'e xorxes > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or > if > >> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e6d9a2c77332f804810ecb6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe the writer doesn't know that? It's the only reason I can thin= k of that makes sense.

On Fri, Mar 5, 201= 0 at 7:44 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 9:= 37 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmai= l.com> wrote:
> I would guess that the reason for the {se ... fa} bit was partly to > emphasize the experience and partly to keep from having to figure out = how to
> terminate=A0{lonu zutse ne'i le ricyzda gi'enai tavla}
>

?? =A0It just terminates with a single kei (which, if it was moved to=
the front, wouldn't even be needed if cu was there.)
=A0 --gy

> 2010/3/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= jjllambias@gmail.com>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:16 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I once stated that the emphasis of the arguments changes when= SE is
>> > used,
>> > but was told that SE does not cause such change in emphasis. = It would be
>> > handy if it did.
>>
>> I think bringing an argument to the front does make it more topica= l.
>> But in this case, it was not really brought to the front, or it wa= s
>> brought to the front only to be pushed back again with "fa&qu= ot;:
>>
>> =A0 zanfri ko'a =A0-> =A0se zanfri fa ko'a
>>
>> So the difference in this case is not really about ko'a, but a= bout
>> where the elided zo'e is:
>>
>> =A0 (zo'e) zanfri ko'a =A0-> se zanfri fa ko'a (zo&= #39;e)
>>
>> In the second form the experiencer is perhaps even more irrelevant=
>> than in the first form.
>>
>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
>
>


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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=
--0016e6d9a2c77332f804810ecb6a-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.