From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 05 07:51:00 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnZnm-0004O5-Ok for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:50:59 -0800 Received: from n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com ([68.142.237.123]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnZne-0004FS-2V for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:50:55 -0800 Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2010 15:50:41 -0000 Received: from [66.196.97.144] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2010 15:50:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp202.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2010 15:50:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 575145.68723.bm@omp202.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 73479 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Mar 2010 15:50:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1267804241; bh=ADjLk94+vI4nXW2FcZTq9mm8q6gk3DSBEMb1TTZwA50=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=EbpoXCkKIcy7m73UT2FgnwN7VkVtZcUSObXFsNwExqBVQMZ/8+5HnYeRggGEow8OBuqd93iAS+2s3218uG2T01XFAhfW50FQNPKGccEd/ghi46CpvwKCx9OPs9EL/I3MHqqDff+FR6/HhcUToDX4YzJMfOgTNzCH7XRs/sLPEx8= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=BUnysNYtK3UlS8IQ7iQbx//A4L/J45sLd/at3i365MaRyLWQKQg/MMzCU9iYFbxiIopOT6xpr2pszvKEb4OfqbAdQ2+W7mdT+GwnQlb39z5xXoqxI2xbn8mNOis0oBC6TIUQhkcN+xLBEp6yWDhBMKTMBz0eAzArPmK9wEgtq/k=; Message-ID: <453213.70755.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 4XPtzfcVM1nM3xpgKHOZQ.JlxNusFYFRVTrogjID3a2f7L9 Rq46VFvHfx7Q6FFApDm0QUjRIaXYYXB10RIhTMz8MfaDVf8E5T4wU35pB02B 7HMmDQzfW2e4I84SPfu2TcUSm1eR3mwmVXNLYG3EatI6oOav24k5aDkDN81j 4PJBS1sRcoL4QfkYmjNtutHv1j.NYkfv2vn9e7GESIhp7COJrqsOZr3Rt84M t3q9cHIzhYCcHRwe0.u9Km9HEl23s_y0iLeLj6QHAFr3tPkod7PeYBGyOwBM EdYLW6hVMpaJwTuA6vfSoZgwZ88XPhXe4Hk1taB82frQnpfr2_wFdckMNpfx uVcdCQHatURUnEm9YUJa4ygepi_fM Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:50:41 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/300.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <395141.17119.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <96f789a61003040653h3cbf33fbn82c24ece8e63ec22@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003040928r5d2d85efma8db985509ffbadf@mail.gmail.com> <369994.71546.qm@web50404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <925d17561003041351u11a65d8fpadc799cd405f8291@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003041359u2e158b13gac898593a8311c1d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003041414w6122f0c4y757f43f70a9bbcd5@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003041442r613e933g80234426ff0d4cb5@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b951003041916n67235566jf7415ce90e4dc757@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003050434m7010e535rca50dd0e79eb79a6@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003050637s4aa32cd2k662f922fb648023e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:50:41 -0800 (PST) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: [lojban] Re: Fw: bridi tail negation To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <702226df1003050637s4aa32cd2k662f922fb648023e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-596694807-1267804241=:70755" X-archive-position: 17097 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0-596694807-1267804241=:70755 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually the ONLY=A0reason I stuck the x1 after {zanfri} was to stay as clo= se =0Ato the English text as possible:=0A=0A=A0 =0A"It wasn't much fun sitt= ing up there in their tree house not speaking."=0A=A0=0Atotus=0A=0A=0A>=0A>= From: Jonathan Jones =0A>To: lojban-list@lojban.org=0A>S= ent: Fri, March 5, 2010 9:37:30 AM=0A>Subject: [lojban] Re: Fw: bridi tail = negation=0A>=0A>I would guess that the reason for the {se ... fa} bit was p= artly to emphasize the experience and partly to keep from having to figure = out how to terminate=A0{lonu zutse ne'i le ricyzda gi'enai tavla}=0A>=0A>= =0A>2010/3/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas =0A>=0A>On Fri, Mar 5, = 2010 at 12:16 AM, MorphemeAddict wrote:=0A>>> I once st= ated that the emphasis of the arguments changes when SE is used,=0A>>> but = was told that SE does not cause such change in emphasis. It would be=0A>>> = handy if it did.=0A>>=0A>>I think bringing an argument to the front does ma= ke it more topical.=0A>>But in this case, it was not really brought to the = front, or it was=0A>>brought to the front only to be pushed back again with= "fa":=0A>>=0A>>=A0 zanfri ko'a =A0-> =A0se zanfri fa ko'a=0A>>=0A>>So the = difference in this case is not really about ko'a, but about=0A>>where the e= lided zo'e is:=0A>>=0A>>=A0 (zo'e) zanfri ko'a =A0-> se zanfri fa ko'a (zo'= e)=0A>>=0A>>In the second form the experiencer is perhaps even more irrelev= ant=0A>>than in the first form.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>mu'o mi'e xorxes=0A>>=0A>>=0A= >>To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g=0A>>with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, o= r if=0A>>you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.= =0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>mu'o mi'e .aionys.=0A>=0A>.i.a'o.e'e ko klama = le bende pe denpa bu=0A>=0A> --0-596694807-1267804241=:70755 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Actually the ONLY reason I stuck the x1 after {zanfri} was t= o stay as close
=0A
to the English text as possible:
=0A 
=0A
 =0A

"It wasn't much fun sitting up there = in their tree house not speaking."

=0A

 

=0A

totus


=0A=0A

=0A
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmai= l.com>
To: lojban-lis= t@lojban.org
Sent: Fri, = March 5, 2010 9:37:30 AM
Subject: [lojban] Re: Fw: bridi tail negation

I would guess = that the reason for the {se ... fa} bit was partly to emphasize the experie= nce and partly to keep from having to figure out how to terminate {lonu zutse ne'i le ricyzda gi'enai ta= vla}

=0A
2010/3/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com<= /A>>
=0A
=0A
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:16 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> I once stated that th= e emphasis of the arguments changes when SE is used,
> but was told t= hat SE does not cause such change in emphasis. It would be
> handy if= it did.

I think bringing an argument to the front does make i= t more topical.
But in this case, it was not really brought to the front= , or it was
brought to the front only to be pushed back again with "fa":=

  zanfri ko'a  ->  se zanfri fa ko'a

So th= e difference in this case is not really about ko'a, but about
where the = elided zo'e is:

  (zo'e) zanfri ko'a  -> se zanfri fa k= o'a (zo'e)

In the second form the experiencer is perhaps even more i= rrelevant
than in the first form.
=0A
=0A
=0A

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send m= ail to lojban-list-= request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.loj= ban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.
<= BR>.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--0-596694807-1267804241=:70755-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.