From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 09 09:17:45 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Np33v-0001O2-1K for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:17:44 -0800 Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Np33g-0001KB-QW for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:17:33 -0800 Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so886189bwz.26 for ; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:17:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2LmWBhFZjY4PeCS+shC+S31NrhSZZufGFi7vyRTxwWc=; b=NzUjFa6yQMhHE23iGGx/+yEXeg+bk83YrkdXnxguv/LaLk/TROf5VFD0oTulcaVtwC 2qWvv6RUR8UZRpbil74wzafixaPktq3Hg3IWG06oPW6cBkUe3Glb/vFN6f5kH8Q0qItL YbH4eIfq29igDMUrtjktypqqPKEHF6JROMLsg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=R2iwoDe19Fo2oCx7YCPM89TocfS9kEER+OxiGsUQW/d3ln7CtAmmT7ZZ1NNqDlAgMo KbAbzAWcCWjofJ028sUJBsSQAiQfb+TBX4w3ML6zGvKZJlA9fVi3ihUHa3lAVpctoz4A aqshLXMpIawUaKdRUmNJHtlEUxbZabXlYp3m0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.4.207 with SMTP id 15mr106982bks.60.1268155041320; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:17:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <96f789a61003090826i27a6531eob88df0e3bfce7e14@mail.gmail.com> References: <96f789a61003090826i27a6531eob88df0e3bfce7e14@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 14:17:21 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17561003090917y2816542eh14ea3b879ea2259@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: stage-4 fu'ivla construction exception? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: Michael Turniansky Cc: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 17148 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > ---   I ran into an interesting problem trying to create "gin" as > "jikr{u}"+djine.  I can't use an r hyphen, because the 4-rafsi ends > with r.  I can't use "n", because it creates the impermissible triple > "ndj".  However, there is no provision in this step for using "l" in > this situation.  I would think there should be. Yes, Pierre has pointed out this oversight in CLL before. I will add it to the errata page. > When I did use it, > and ran the result (jikrldjine) through jbofi'e, it didn't barf, but > did process it as jik+r+ldjine (some kind of socializing "ldjine"  Is > there anything official about what one should do in this kind of > situation? Independently of this situation, Stage-3 fu'ivla are not always unambiguously analyzable into classifier rafsi plus the rest. If you follow the CLL rules, any CVCrV or CVnrV gismu used as classifier is subject to this type of ambiguity. The "unwanted" reading, however, is very unlikely to occur, because the borrowed word would have to start with an unlikely consonant cluster. (like "ldjine" in your case). The way I have proposed to solve this is to add a rule that says that the lojbanized part of the fu'ivla, before adding the classifier, has to consist of valid lojban syllables (i.e., it has to start with a valid initial), so "jikrldjine" can only be analyzed as jikr-l-djine. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.