From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 12 08:07:32 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nq7Oe-0006w5-Ha for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:07:32 -0800 Received: from mail-px0-f201.google.com ([209.85.216.201]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nq7OW-0006lo-UO for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:07:30 -0800 Received: by pxi39 with SMTP id 39so765955pxi.2 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:07:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=q00PqF0BkcA/edl+Jdr5zS2JX/yB2/VOkWBHWzYxS4k=; b=gkgVpIP6bMeny0DTT4R7vAI7sG+M5X8p/9mepCQPfGDD787eoJXrfWD4xHhGmxS8M3 e55soaWuNIBdkfkyFQigja4GGVUwpH7XMf8I+iVFFOOTvfIEdov+yrFn+BlZdpWfcQkG dl3v2kLTve4JW2HjBDT3rqdKj8zPn3sHc+QdU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SUQ2afLn5ArAYsPHDl/GsX6nhaABHXgchSLGISYfqbVy+8m7r21Uh7wR0qS7dV42EM cfBQXWbO4OlYlDJ19ZMiR9jLzloBUvEGFhVUKSEuz2oREjBtgmR8bSbC4rHMmxoKekSL ZU5o54cP+vbH5pSGgwlnCAVGCaDa0AwVojBP0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.122.42 with SMTP id u42mr178803wfc.108.1268410038280; Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:07:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <702226df1003120753m45775e2avc18bf50b6bcff585@mail.gmail.com> References: <925d17561003120510w5268cea2sdbf61cc89932839d@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a61003120602s47cb9b94p20cf5cbd9776990c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003120611x3f71d5baydd1a8019b336eddb@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003120753m45775e2avc18bf50b6bcff585@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:07:18 -0500 Message-ID: <96f789a61003120807n25ab92ffg65324a71ce1316cd@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: cusku - say or express? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 17179 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > The keyword of bacru is "utter", because "orgle-borgle", "squeak", and other > such onomatopeia are all utterances. A creaky door is a valid {lo bacru}, > but it is not a valid {lo cusku}. I think the salient difference is that {lo > se cusku} is something imparting meaning, whereas {lo se bacru} is merely > some sort of noise. > No, "savru" is a noise. (from the point of view of the observer). Sance is a sound from a source. It is true the bacru is a not a communication, because there is no intended audience. But that does NOT necessarily mean that the se bacru is not an intelligent utterance. If I say "To be or not to be" in the bathroom in the dead of night, that's still a bacru, but not a cusku. Not all se bacru are se cusku, not all se cusku are se bacru. But some are both. The sets are not disjoint. --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.