From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Mar 13 18:11:20 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NqdIV-0001ES-Iv for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:20 -0800 Received: from mail-pv0-f181.google.com ([74.125.83.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NqdIR-0001DZ-K1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:19 -0800 Received: by pvg16 with SMTP id 16so246279pvg.40 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XKtYol4cU/mkgDSeSbaf0gaIHbHvmB9KVWsrQfiMZWg=; b=JxFY6+5y2cHUspYwWj38B0SIoHD3fpjakJa4xQSo73ZHpqbvrMzwYdWf0M3w3kpO5g /hPij1bQNHlyHgJRdNbSdAqLcE9BhUi+z5/WC7jUp82Wm1Rf59buNqU2QYZJ/nIt4Y56 iShMr3nATPs+/oR9kQRqXqPcB8KIVslbMwbO4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IGaLHGUSgkHDpAyxzhF8Dq6RDdbhqOKQi7bCcIeGydsiEhozTt8hs93QwhNavSoVr6 /0wtfPSw3Ua8DEa8LutA83SDwW1egjkyHS4jRkxuoM55tiBmxC90Z3ixZZBOE6z6keVu KFx0OJEJ3jYw5VsWNLyEkiXDTVfkzhrHTDjts= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.195.16 with SMTP id s16mr416281wff.306.1268532669313; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100314001957.GE25330@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100312192042.GN10385@digitalkingdom.org> <20100312195727.GO10385@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003121311m422cf3bbjf82ee369a9b6c33b@mail.gmail.com> <1268429293.26304.3.camel@thomas> <121832.27670.qm@web50401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <702226df1003131143l278d2c46lbdfcf548e0d172ff@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003131226n5303477h1907741037570f1e@mail.gmail.com> <20100313213001.GB25330@digitalkingdom.org> <249d5b951003131447v7a09dc3aobf985dc2f4f54810@mail.gmail.com> <20100314001957.GE25330@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:11:09 -0500 Message-ID: <96f789a61003131811p3ad6fe66u5d0f4d0f1eeb4b22@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: cusku - say or express? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 17211 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 05:47:36PM -0500, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>    Robin, >>    How many native English speakers have no problem at all with the say/talk >>    distinction? I don't. Maybe you and Jonathan are the only exceptions, and >>    it makes no sense to change a keyword for the sake of two people out of a >>    much larger community. > > I can't speak for people who haven't spoken up.  Now it's 2 to 1. > :)  Feel free to get other people to post. > > I'm really curious, though: You're saying that if one flashcard say > "a sayer" and another said "a talker", you wouldn't find that > confusing at all?  Those seem obviously distinct to you? > > Regardless, please see my other post for a better suggestion (adding > the whole place structure in). > >>    I prefer 'say' for "cusku". (or even better: 'cusku' for >>    "cusku".) > > Erm. > > You do understand that we're *only* talking about flashcards, right? > We're not talking about changing anything official, or what's in > jbovlaste, or anything, just flashcards. > > A flashcard that said "cusku" on one side and "cusku" on the other > would not be helpful. > > -Robin > I'm sorry. I'm a native English speaker, and much as I usually argue with Xorxes, his point is very well taken. And Merriam-Webster agrees with him. (say: "to express /in words/" (that last part is very important. It does the same thing as the "se" does in "se du'u")) As does your .sig "Say" to most people at first blush does mean via talking, but if they take five seconds to consider it (what did that sign say? I can't make out what this author is trying to say. You can say a lot with body language), you realize that you use "say" every day to mean non-audio communication. I vote with the genpre -- 2-2 --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.