From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Mar 14 07:17:43 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NqodR-0007ZC-VA for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:17:43 -0700 Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com ([74.125.82.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nqod9-0007YJ-6j for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:17:32 -0700 Received: by wyf28 with SMTP id 28so1339205wyf.40 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Hh1uLN1/nsuhSaLybnKDOUnv8/wuJwlQml7BOZSOBfA=; b=nA0HIkNZ3xbTmRu91E6fjMm7PGuL360HfH6hpU7uvIN6rA74QjYEcQ03kJ+TQCI/Zk hJdJILWwEvknil0ij8r0s850y/F1ixeXLErK2D5a+cP5ohISA1nIGevaGgq1mdSicq5v NHtGIQSaqLXbBEKq5Ae+IpwZ2GH4omWjZROWw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=F+I8xKqKEvbtmFdDStsMCKhZW+XkDp9J17uwtEsd7bVyieU5WqJ8zJ+GDQlFNwCeuD PdS6DVi77G0hI0TpyGY3mTRq4wZqppErg6FEB60iT57NHUzPCzRkKlMvp6mP+9x4nbIm 4aTJY8p6/06SKH7QK+6tAt6kOfGGdLD6z0ngU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.89.149 with SMTP id c21mr1240769wef.43.1268576235689; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100313212857.GA25330@digitalkingdom.org> References: <925d17561003120510w5268cea2sdbf61cc89932839d@mail.gmail.com> <20100312183050.GJ10385@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003121116t634e3b47xe5e4105e225ba491@mail.gmail.com> <20100312192042.GN10385@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003121145x53ade2a3sdf2c6d443cce8854@mail.gmail.com> <20100312195727.GO10385@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003121311m422cf3bbjf82ee369a9b6c33b@mail.gmail.com> <1268429293.26304.3.camel@thomas> <20100313212857.GA25330@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:17:15 -0600 Message-ID: <702226df1003140717r7143e44fkeda492a41eab4ccc@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: A different way to do the flashcards (was Re: Re: cusku - say or express?) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7eefae618710481c36b4d X-archive-position: 17226 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0016e6d7eefae618710481c36b4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I vote evolution (AKA survival of the fittest). Put up both methods, and let the users decide which they want to use to learn. We've already got everything needed for the lesson as I envisioned it, and = I assume that you've uploaded most, if not all of the lesson items for it already. I also assume that you could, with little effort, add the "place n of ...." bit to the lessons. So, why not have both? On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > smart.fm actually *does* use whole phrases, like "an expresser" or > "a sayer" for "lo cusku". > > What I'm wondering is if it shouldn't instead say "a sayer (place 1 > of: x1 says x2 for audience x3 via expressive medium x4)". That is, > have both the short form *and* the place structure. > > The big advantage there is that instead of saying "an audience of > something said", we can say "an audience (place 3 of: x1 says x2 for > audience x3 via expressive medium x4), which semems far more natural > to me. Oddly. :) > > I've just tested with "lo te cusku", by the way, and even when stuff > doesn't fit on a card proprerly, it looks fine in iKnow and Drill. > Drill can't handle stuff much longer than "an audience for > expression (place 3 of: x1 says x2 for audience x3 via expressive > medium x4)", but it can handle that, and a few more words extra I > expect, so it can probably handle this format in general. You can > try http://smart.fm/goals/270376 to see what it looks like (test 5 > is that phrase). > > -Robin > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 04:28:13PM -0500, Robert Slaughter wrote: > > On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 18:11 -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > > > You and I already know well what "cusku" means, so whatever keyword > > you choose won't affect you or me. If your argument is that English > > speakers in general get confused about the meaning of "say", to the > > extent that they can't readily distinguish it from "talk" without > > context, well, maybe a single keyword is just not the answer. > > > > Looking over the discussion today, maybe this point made in passing = by > > xorxes should be reviewed. I've always though that the single keywor= d > > idea, as used in logflash (for example), was a weak match, but a sho= rt > > key-phrase might work better for capturing the underlying meaning of > the > > lojban words -- nor just gismu, but the more troublesome cmavo as > well. > > > > -- > > Bob Slaughter, [1]rslauGUESS@WHATmindspring.com > > [2]http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/ > > North Georgia Modurail: [3]http://www.trainweb.org/northgamodurail/ > > "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but > because of those who look on and do nothing." -- Albert Einstein< > > "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be rul= ed > by evil men." -- Plato > > > > References > > > > Visible links > > 1. mailto:rslauGUESS@whatmindspring.com > > 2. http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/ > > 3. http://www.trainweb.org/northgamodurail/ > > -- > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something > other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e6d7eefae618710481c36b4d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I vote evolution (AKA survival of the fittest).<= /div>
=A0
Put up both methods, and let the users decide wh= ich they want to use to learn.
=A0
We've already got=A0everything needed for th= e lesson as I envisioned it, and I assume that you've uploaded most, if= not all of the lesson items for it already.
=A0
I also assume that you could, with little effort= , add the "place=A0n of ...." bit to the lessons.
=A0
So, why not have both?
=A0
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Robin Lee Powel= l <rlpo= well@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
smart.fm actually *does* use whole phrases, like "a= n expresser" or
"a sayer" for "lo cusku".

What I'm wondering= is if it shouldn't instead say "a sayer (place 1
of: x1 says x= 2 for audience x3 via expressive medium x4)". =A0That is,
have both= the short form *and* the place structure.

The big advantage there is that instead of saying "an audience of<= br>something said", we can say "an audience (place 3 of: x1 says = x2 for
audience x3 via expressive medium x4), which semems far more natu= ral
to me. =A0Oddly. =A0:)

I've just tested with "lo te cusku&q= uot;, by the way, and even when stuff
doesn't fit on a card proprerl= y, it looks fine in iKnow and Drill.
Drill can't handle stuff much l= onger than "an audience for
expression (place 3 of: x1 says x2 for audience x3 via expressive
medium= x4)", but it can handle that, and a few more words extra I
expect,= so it can probably handle this format in general. =A0You can
try http://smart.fm/goals/= 270376 to see what it looks like (test 5
is that phrase).

-Robin

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 04:28:13PM -0= 500, Robert Slaughter wrote:
> =A0 =A0On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 18:11 -03= 00, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote:
>
> =A0You and I already know well = what "cusku" means, so whatever keyword
> =A0you choose won't affect you or me. If your argument is that Eng= lish
> =A0speakers in general get confused about the meaning of "= ;say", to the
> =A0extent that they can't readily distinguis= h it from "talk" without
> =A0context, well, maybe a single keyword is just not the answer.
&g= t;
> =A0 =A0Looking over the discussion today, maybe this point made = in passing by
> =A0 =A0xorxes should be reviewed. I've always tho= ugh that the single keyword
> =A0 =A0idea, as used in logflash (for example), was a weak match, but = a short
> =A0 =A0key-phrase might work better for capturing the under= lying meaning of the
> =A0 =A0lojban words -- nor just gismu, but the= more troublesome cmavo as well.
>
> --
> Bob Slaughter, [1]rslauGUESS@WHATmindspring.com
= > [2]htt= p://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/
> North Georgia Modurail: [3]http://ww= w.trainweb.org/northgamodurail/
> "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil= , but because of those who look on and do nothing." -- Albert Einstein= <
> "The price good men pay for indifference to public affair= s is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
>
> References
>
> =A0 =A0Visible links
> =A0 = =A01. mailto:rslauGUESS@wh= atmindspring.com
> =A0 =A02. http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/
> =A0 =A03. http://www.trainweb.org/northgamodurail/

--
They = say: =A0"The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."=
And I'm =A0thinking: =A0"Does it even occur to you to try for = something
other =A0than =A0the default =A0outcome?" =A0See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
http://ww= w.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the s= ubject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e = ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--0016e6d7eefae618710481c36b4d-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.