From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 15 07:34:06 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NrBMr-0001n4-G6 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:34:05 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com ([209.85.212.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NrBMj-0001fk-4g for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:34:02 -0700 Received: by vws7 with SMTP id 7so800287vws.40 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:33:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=fBwmC4CjjtmPFf1adwTWrySYcadUm5uvLr+eoHk0f0g=; b=kntuclSVS9H3ORhZuo2I/XNM5mClOhU5itb4Ypa7un7pR65lx3YRiCWxwbkeTpRXF+ dwS2TTCZdMEDPXJOiSVZ15TBEwNjZ/RoN97pp4PI1eEFDWBdjjwqJS/gIjSEsRrE6K5c LjYwftsEFnhk9G+X/JAuqQlyaEwjP/shdQN00= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=rQGV8vz1SMqJteYW3jBEpxAaF0wfqZKYQlIZ5LfawvX/MJwqWFIicV9ez0WrkwQVJN R9kGEQ6OgoMnlPphu7G145ZVIr4TXGdJCBpWyQPmONwoHqpUyioQEh6NjrRdop5d0EMS /+UsZ770NJrtcqdtqoM4He6kicB1jhJmMS9WE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.121.168 with SMTP id h40mr2532131vcr.13.1268663630507; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:33:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <001636c5b1bca2062a0481d7b230@google.com> References: <925d17561003150715g66966388y3f57040e61f4500d@mail.gmail.com> <001636c5b1bca2062a0481d7b230@google.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:33:50 -0500 Message-ID: <5715b9301003150733u13f4a081j8cd83a45b27eb5a4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: cusku - say or express? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636d33d130935c60481d7c514 X-archive-position: 17243 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --001636d33d130935c60481d7c514 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Assert for {cusku} seems unusual. I can {cusku} a question but I don't believe it's possible to assert a question. {cusku} "express" vs. "say" don't make a whole lot of difference to me either way. I had the same objection as Robin at first (that say and talk are very similar sounding) until I really thought about how I use "say". I have no problems with either as long as the user understands that it's a GLOSS WORD and not some kind of official definition. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, wrote: > I think of them as "assert" and "converse" (cusku and tavla respectively)= . > > Any objections there? > > > > On Mar 15, 2010 2:15pm, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Jonathan Jones eyeonus@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > 2010/3/14 Jorge Llamb=EDas jjllambias@gmail.com> > > > > >> > > > > >> Why does the verbal connotation of "say" bother you so much, but the > > > > >> same verbal connotation of "talk" doesn't? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a better suggestion for tavla than talk? Because I don't. > > > > > > > > No, I think "talk" is the best one-word gloss for "tavla", just as > > > > "say" is the best one-word gloss for "cusku". I don't think "say" and > > > > "talk" are too similar (they are no more similar than "cusku" and > > > > "tavla"), and I don't think their vocal connotation is so strong that > > > > people won't realize that they can use them for non-vocal contexts. > > > > > > > > "Speak" would be my second choice for "tavla", but it is worse than > > > > "talk" in terms of connotations. "Say" and "talk" are almost perfect > > > > matches for "cusku" and "tavla", since they take the same kind of > > > > arguments and even the order of the arguments is as in English (which > > > > is of course not really a coincidence). > > > > > > > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > > > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or > if > > > > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > > > > > > --001636d33d130935c60481d7c514 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Assert for {cusku} seems unusual. =A0I can {cusku} a question but I don'= ;t believe it's possible to assert a question. =A0{cusku} "express= " vs. "say" don't make a whole lot of difference to me e= ither way. =A0I had the same objection as Robin at first (that say and talk= are very similar sounding) until I really thought about how I use "sa= y".=A0

I have no problems with either as long as the user understan= ds that it's a GLOSS WORD and not some kind of official definition.
=
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, <GFBeresford@gmail.com= > wrote:
I think of them as "assert" and &= quot;converse" (cusku and tavla respectively).

Any objections t= here?



On Mar 15, 2010 2:15pm, Jorge Llam= b=EDas <jjllam= bias@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Jon= athan Jones eyeonus@= gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 2010/3/14 Jorge Llamb=EDas jjllambias@gmail.com>
>
> = >>
>
> >> Why does the verbal connotation of "= ;say" bother you so much, but the
>
> >> same verbal connotation of "talk" doesn= 9;t?
>
> >
>
> > Do you have a better sugge= stion for tavla than talk? Because I don't.
>
>
> <= br> > No, I think "talk" is the best one-word gloss for "tavl= a", just as
>
> "say" is the best one-word glos= s for "cusku". I don't think "say" and
>
> "talk" are too similar (they are no more similar than "= cusku" and
>
> "tavla"), and I don't think = their vocal connotation is so strong that
>
> people won't= realize that they can use them for non-vocal contexts.
>
>
>
> "Speak" would be my second choice= for "tavla", but it is worse than
>
> "talk&qu= ot; in terms of connotations. "Say" and "talk" are almo= st perfect
>
> matches for "cusku" and "tavla", since th= ey take the same kind of
>
> arguments and even the order of t= he arguments is as in English (which
>
> is of course not real= ly a coincidence).
>
>
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
> <= br>>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail= to loj= ban-list-request@lojban.org
>
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if<= br>>
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >
>
>

--001636d33d130935c60481d7c514-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.