From wetblu!uunet!cbmvax!snark!lojbab Thu May 10 08:15:28 1990 Return-Path: Received: by marob.masa.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.7) id ; Thu, 10 May 90 08:15 EDT Received: by wetblu.hollander.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.12) id ; Thu, 10 May 90 08:24 EDT Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP id AA14432; Thu, 10 May 90 07:40:57 -0400 Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore Jan 13 1990) id AA00357; Thu, 10 May 90 07:05:59 EDT Received: by snark.uu.net (smail2.3) id AA00829; 10 May 90 02:04:49 EDT (Thu) To: lojban-list Subject: logfest 90 Date: 10 May 90 02:04:49 EDT (Thu) From: wetblu!uunet!cbmvax!snark.uu.net!lojbab Message-Id: <9005100204.AA00829@snark.uu.net> Status: RO this message is a revised an expanded version of an earlier discussion of logfest that went out on Lojban-list. It is now the draft text of what I am planning to put into JL12 on Logfest, so pardon any strange wordings or references to the rest of the JL issue. I'm resending because the first memo was poorly organized, and in any case didn't reach everybody, due to some glitch in the network mail system. In any case, this message is also a welcome to about 20 new people added to lojban-list based on addresses I've dug out of the files. If you don't want to be on the list, send a message to lojban-list-request@snark.uu.net If you are on Compuserve, you can send to any address with an @ in it by prefixing with 'INTERNET:'. Thus, to send to me (Bob LeChevalier), send to INTERNET:lojbab@snark.uu.net End of intro. I'd like feedback on the Logfest plans and word on who's planning on coming. LogFest Plans LogFest 90 will be held from Friday thru Monday the weekend of 15-18 June 1990; most of the planned activities will be within the weekend proper. The annual meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. is set for Sunday morning, the 17th, by our bylaws, and is the one absolutely fixed item for the gathering. All other dates and times discussed below are subject to change depending on what attendees want to do and/or talk about. This meeting is for YOU, so make sure we know what is important to you. Especially let us know if you can only come for part of the weekend, and have a particular topic you want to talk about; we'll try to move things around to fit you in. From the feedback we've been getting, we're expecting more people at LogFest this year than in previous years. For the benefit of our planning, please let us know if you are coming (or if you 'might be' coming - we don't need ironclad commitments). There's no penalty for not doing so - we simply have a smoother, better planned gathering. We have plenty of sleeping space, especially for those with sleeping bags and/or tents. Families are welcome, provided that they have sleeping bags too (there are motels within a couple of miles, but the DC area isn't cheap); we also need financial help if we're going to feed families. Also, if your coming depends on finding transportation to Washington DC, let us know. There may be someone else coming from the same place or direction that you can rideshare with. This is especially likely for the Northeast corridor, from Boston down to Washington. Be sure to specify what dates you want to attend, the earliest you can leave home and the latest you can return home to make ride- sharing feasible. If you have access to the computer network, you might also consider posting a notice on lojban- list, so that others who are thinking 'maybe' will more likely consider going, with the knowledge of reduced transportation costs. What will be going on at LogFest? We will have two major themes this time: - How can we help more people learn Lojban easier? - What short term applications for Lojban are worth highest priority? We also will have the goal, by the end of the weekend, of deciding on several last minute proposals regarding the language and declaring a conditional or unconditional baseline (freeze) on the grammar. Now for details. There will be several things going on simultaneously. - Some main track discussions, generally related to the themes above, which Bob will probably be leading or helping out with; - 1 or 2 computer rooms, with 2-3 MS-DOS machines, Art Wieners' UNIX machine, and whatever else people bring. Art and others will usually be in there demonstrating existing software, and working on new software including the parser. There will be a little bit of computer talk on the main track, but we will generally be trying to make it so non- computer types can understand what is going on. - Athelstan, and possibly others, will be helping with new Lojbanists. Athelstan will give mini-lessons at times scheduled below (if there are people interested then), but he will also be available impromptu for mini-lessons, explanations of grammar points, and demonstration of the flash card technique. - On occasion throughout the weekend we'll hold short sessions of all-Lojban conversation - typically a half hour or less so that non-speakers don't get bored, or frustrated. These sessions will probably occur in between main discussions. Specific schedules as they stand: Friday 7PM - Athelstan mini-lesson (about 1 hr.), if people present who haven't been to one 8PM - After the mini-lesson (or starting earlier if there is none), there will be a discussion of Jim Yorke and Celso Grebogi's proposal (later in this issue) to have Lojban image languages using gismu based on single languages to make them easier to learn. Side issues may include applications such as teaching Lojban to kids (including using such teaching to help them learn English better), and other aspects of making Lojban easier to learn for people than it currently is. Dr. Yorke will be at the session, but has schedule constraints that mean that he can only attend early in the weekend, so the Friday night schedule is relatively fixed. Saturday Saturday morning - additional discussion about teaching and learning Lojban, including any leftover discussions from the night before. I hope to have new textbook lesson drafts for people to look at and comment on, so here's your chance to make a difference before the book is finished. If there is interest, we will start side discussions at that point on how to organize and lead a class when you don't know the language yourself. Athelstan and John Hodges will both be there, and both have done this now. Eric Tiedemann will, we hope, be there to report on the initial work by the New York City class. We want to stimulate new class efforts, even if only 2-3 people are participating. Athelstan is hoping to launch 2 classes, one in Virginia and one in Maryland, at LogFest or immediately afterwards. We are also considering instituting a weekly Lojban conversation session to start with or shortly after LogFest (this may end up having to wait until fall - simply because Athelstan may be spread too thin.) 1PM - Another Lojban min-lesson, if there is demand. Saturday afternoon will include a discussion of voice recognition, the lojban parser, AI work and various other computer processing projects. Art Wieners will tell about his fairly extensive efforts, including word recognition and analysis, as well as Artificial Intelligence applications for Lojban. Unfortunately, Jeff Taylor, who has been leading the parser efforts, is having to drop out of Lojban work for a while, and won't be coming. We will be looking for new parser helpers, and there may be technical side-discussions. Eric Raymond, host of lojban- list, has been working on porting LogFlash to Unix, and will talk about what he's done. Nora and I will talk about planned new software and enhancements, and we'll accept proposals for others. All software (and other products) will be available for demonstration, examination, and (of course) purchase. (Oh, yes; and everybody in the world will be trying to convince Bob and Nora to switch from MS- DOS to UNIX; Good luck!) Saturday nite - Bob will lead discussions about textbook plans, dictionary plans, and take suggestions. We'll also talk about the recent change proposals to the language. Non-controversial ones will get a quick decision; the rest will be deferred for further discussion on Sunday or later - all attendees have a vote. Sunday Sunday morning is the la lojbangirz. business meeting. Expect businessy things. Most people tend to sleep in late on Sunday morning after two late nights, which is why we're putting this at a low ebb time. We hope to finish the meeting by noon. The agenda is not yet known. Topics typically include finances, plans and priorities. All attendees are welcome to participate informally. Sunday afternoon, we will discuss gismu list change proposals, hopefully briefly, and make a group decision on whether we are ready to baseline the Lojban grammar. If so, the language is DONE!!!! Practically speaking, I expect a conditional baseline, possibly excluding MEX, and possibly waiting either for the parser or the textbook to be completed or both, before it becomes a full freeze. (More on this below, under R & D). around 3PM? - A final scheduled mini-lesson; this time an advanced lesson for people who have already had the basic mini-lesson. This may continue into a longer tutorial, if there is demand, but will otherwise last an hour. Sunday nite and Monday will be left unscheduled for whatever comes up - invariably something runs overtime. Besides, many out-of-towners will have left by then, though pc and probably Art Wieners will still be here. pc and family plan to arrive on Wednesday the 13th. Art usually comes for a full week, but his dates are not yet known. Other activities will be dependent on demand: Some have suggested a group effort to write or translate something, perhaps a short essay reporting on LogFest. We have an ancient back burner project to update Jim Carter's story in old Loglan to current Lojban, and a similar effort involving a old story by Bob Chassell. These are non-trivial and will not be finished in a weekend, but are easier than composing raw text. Carter's work, in particular, will take a fair amount of tanru and lujvo re- making; he used a lot of Institute Loglan words that are based on no longer acceptable tanru. In addition, the current gismu list has more expressive power than earlier lists. There will be other side discussions as people desire. Speak up now with your favorite topic. Some possibilities include lujvo making, and good tanru for various words, etc. We will be having Lojban conversation as mentioned above, possibly with on longer session towards the end (when more people feel comfortable with trying to say things) if there is demand for it. To keep costs down, we need people to bring their own word lists, etc., though we'll have inventory if needed. If you are thinking about ordering stuff, it saves us postage to give it to there and let you carry it home. But we need to have a good number of people pay for stuff there in order to do this. We will probably have no money in the bank after LogFest to restock inventory, except what we collect at the meeting. Logistics: We generally put up a good spread of food to keep people from going hungry We're asking for contributions of $5-15 per day towards costs (and preferably more, if you can help), but there is no mandatory admission charge. If we don't get enough volunteer cash flow, this will be the last year of voluntary giving. To pay for LogFest, we will probably need more than the $600 spent last year, depending on attendance, which we expect to be double or more. (That $600 doesn't include all costs, but only those paid by la lojbangirz. - it averages out to about $30 per person, including those who only came for part of the weekend.) As mentioned above, families are welcome if you bring sleeping bags and tent or trailer. We'll have at least one adult and 1 13-year-old non-Lojbanist here for the weekend so there will probably be some side activities such as sightseeing in DC or shopping at the malls, or whatever for disinterested spouses and kids. Let us know if you're bring extras along so we can plan for food, etc. We are close to DC's metro system and right off the freeway. The newsletter will have a detailed map. Any questions, just ask. --lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, president The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA (703)385-0273