Resent-From: cbmvax!uunet!PICA.ARMY.MIL!protin
Resent-Message-Id: <9106192211.AA23308@relay1.UU.NET>
          27 May 90 16:53 EDT
From: cbmvax!uunet!math.ucla.edu!jimc
Message-Id: <9005271916.AA01403@julia.math.ucla.edu>
To: lojban-list@snark
Subject: Re: feature check (commutative tanru)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 25 May 90 10:47:05 EDT."
             <9005251047.aa28309@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL> 
Date: Sun, 27 May 90 12:16:23 -0700
Resent-Date:  Wed, 19 Jun 91 18:10:55 EDT
Resent-To: John Cowan <cowan@snark.thyrsus.com>
Status: RO

> Date:      Fri, 25 May 90 10:47:05 EDT
> To:  lojban-list%snark@uunet.UU.NET
> From:  "Arthur W. Protin Jr." (GC-ACCURATE) <protin@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject:   feature check

>...   
>     In lojban, is there a difference in the meanings of the two
> sentences that are equivalent to the old loglan sentences (1)
> "da groda mrenu", and (2) "da mrenu groda"?

I should probably keep my mouth shut and let the real Lojban people answer
this, but fools leap in...  Anyway, in Old Loglan the cases of the tanru
(open-compound predicate) were entirely determined by the last gismu
(primitive word), and the prior gismu kind of fuzzily metaphorically
modified the meaning, at least as JCB explained it.  I believe the same
doctrine is retained in Lojban.  Hence (1) means "It is a (big) MAN" while
(2) means "It is a (masculine) BIG LUNK".  

On the other hand, in -gua!spi this would be a parallel compound: "^:i
!jw /kqa-vyl" and "^:i !jw /vyl-kqa" both mean the same except maybe
for emphasis (not specified formally): "That's a big male", i.e. both
big and male.  Rules for interpreting compounds are very useful,
particularly when they cause infinitives (abstractions) to be generated
automatically, as with -can (X1 changes to be (vo) X2+1) or -daw (X1
desires to do (vo) X2+1).

Note that I'm using the neutral "big" and the "male" word for any species,
vs. dvyr (male human) and tfa (larger than standard or useful).  

		-- Jim Carter