From wetblu!uunet!cbmvax!snark!eric Fri Jun 1 22:36:29 1990 Return-Path: Received: by marob.masa.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.7) id ; Fri, 1 Jun 90 22:36 EDT Received: by wetblu.hollander.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.12) id ; Fri, 1 Jun 90 21:38 EDT Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP id AA09813; Fri, 1 Jun 90 17:56:24 -0400 Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore Jan 13 1990) id AA10724; Fri, 1 Jun 90 16:30:45 EDT Received: by snark.uu.net (smail2.3) id AA20108; 1 Jun 90 15:53:44 EDT (Fri) Subject: Thoughts on attitudinals To: lojban-list Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 15:53:44 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL13] From: wetblu!uunet!cbmvax!snark.uu.net!eric Message-Id: <9006011553.AA20108@snark.uu.net> Status: RO I just got the paper on lojban attitudinals today, looked it over and was pretty well impressed with the system; it looks comprehensive enough to be useful. However, I see one omission which (to my eyes) is pretty glaring; the lack of an indicator for the "powerful/weak" distinction. Note how this is different from the `courage/cowardice' or `success/failure' distinction. Its middle ground might be something like `able to maintain current level' I think this is pretty clearly an a-group attitudinal. For the moment, let's assume it is "ao". It could be used to say things like: naoro'i I feel emotionally weak (i.e. drained, lacking reserves) aoro'o I feel physically powerful (strong, physically able) caoro'u I can maintain sexually (I'm good for a while yet, hon) :-) A related idea which may also deserve an a-group attitudinal is the opposition `confidence/uncertainty/can't hack it', expressing one's feelings about the relation of a challenge to one's capabilities. Let's assume this is "ae". Then, consider naero'i I can't cope with these feelings right now. aero'o I can meet this physical challenge. caero'u I'm not sure I can keep this (level of sexual excitement) up. Also, I think there's a missing e-group attitudinal -- there ought to be a way to express "constrained/closed/limited" vs. "free/open/unlimited"; an options-increasing vs. options-decreasing gradient. Let's suppose it's "ea". Then: nearo'i I feel emotionally constrained ("Give me some space") earo'o I feel free to act physical ("Nice elbow room here") cearo'e This doesn't change the range of mental possibilities. Something else I'd like to see added is an epistemic indicator for `mythologically true' or `it is folklore that' or `it is proverbial that'. This differs from `hearsay' in that it asserts that the same alleged fact would be reported by anyone sharing cultural context with the speakers, without making a strong judgement about truth value. This would be useful in translating proverbs or even the expression "Once upon a time..." Some of the "included middles" seem to me to have obvious loadings that aren't included for example: ci'a withholding judgement, "no blame" (as the I Ching would say) cuu indifference, detachment, clinical attitude ci'u encountered but unfamiliar cuo in process, pending cua maintenence, "holding one's own". Good idiomatic trans. of usual reply to "How's it going?" I think the connotation of `searching' out to be moved to the neutral grade of "ua", so it would read ua discovery, eureka cua searching, "on the road" nua confusion, absence, disorientation Comment on all these proposals is invited. -- Eric S. Raymond = ...!uunet!snark!eric (mad mastermind of TMN-Netnews)