Return-Path: Resent-From: cbmvax!uunet!PICA.ARMY.MIL!protin Resent-Message-Id: <9105302335.AA12065@relay1.UU.NET> 30 May 91 16:33 EDT Message-Id: From: John Cowan Subject: Re: cleft place structures To: "Arthur W. Protin Jr." Date: Thu, 30 May 91 11:02:15 EDT In-Reply-To: <9105291107.aa13687@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>; from "Arthur W. Protin Jr." at May 29, 91 11:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL13] Resent-Date: Thu, 30 May 91 19:34:27 EDT Resent-To: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri May 31 09:00:14 1991 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!PICA.ARMY.MIL!protin Arthur Protin wishes to consider the sentence: mi galfi le blanu bitmu le xunre bitmu le nu cinta preja I modify the blue wall into the red wall by paint-spreading. This represents the cleft place structure of "galfi": x1 modifies x2 into x3 by doing/being x4 He argues that the suggested replacement, the event x1 modifies x2 into x3 is equivalent to the old place structure with x1 and x4 swapped and the old x1 elided. A difficulty with his view arises when the one-who-modifies (old x1) and the actor of the event (x1 of abstraction within old x4) are not the same. The old place structure treats as legitimate sentences like: I modify the blue wall into the red wall by the act of your spreading paint. But if you are doing the paint spreading, in what sense am I thought to be the "one who modifies?" The new place structure eliminates the possibility of saying such (seemingly) self-contradictory things. -- cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban