Return-Path: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 May 91 06:03 EDT From: lojbab (Bob LeChevalier) To: lojban-list Subject: cleft place structures Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Wed May 29 06:05:47 1991 X-From-Space-Address: lojbab Art Protin asks: >Can we get a more precise definition of cleft place structures? A cleft place structure is one which has two places, one an actor, and the other an event clause for which the actor is the agent. Thus, in expressing a sentence using such a place structure, you either redundantly express the actor or elliptically omit the actor in a way that is very non-lojbanic. Example using galfi (cleft place structure in x1/x4) mi galfi le blanu bitmu le xunre bitmu lenu [mi] cinta preja I modify the blue wall into the red wall by the-event [I] paint-spread. In contrast, a united place struture will have only the event clause, usually up front. Thus a proposed revision of galfi would give: lenu mi cinta preja cu galfi le blanu bitmu le xunre bitmu The event-of me paint-spreading modifies the blue wall into the red wall. This united place structure has the difficulty of accessing the actor (me) in a later sentence, by methods familiar to natural language speakers. You can say "le cinta preja", but not "le galfi", since the modifier is an event, not a person. There is a possible solution that I have not yet mentioned, because I want more feedback to make sure that we understand the problem. The problem, in addition to the defective logical structure of cleft places, i is that If we use united places, English and other natural language idiom no longer translates literally. You have to rephrase the sentence to fit the less natural-languagy place structure. This makes those place structures harder to learn and internalize for the new Loglanist, because life-long habits must be overcome. It can be done, however. An example of the united place structure is: lenu mi cinta preja cu mulno The-event-of me paint-spreading is complete. The cleft place structure version, not legal for mulno (which was changed early) is: *mi mulno lenu [mi] cinta preja. I'm done [with the event of[me] paint-spreading. ---- lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com