Return-Path: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 03:38 EDT From: lojbab (Bob LeChevalier) To: lojban-list Subject: new gismu and summary of changes to gismu/rafsi, etc. Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Tue Jun 25 03:39:13 1991 X-From-Space-Address: lojbab Summary of gismu/rafsi related official changes approved in the last year New gismu as approved in June 1990 1. Change "ckamu" to "mleca" for rafsi considerations 2. Add "daytime", change keyword for "day" (full day?, 24hr day?) 3. Add "virtue", as distinct from "good", to parallel with "evil" 4. Add "citrus" 5. Add "cabbage", to include broccoli, cauliflower, and perhaps lettuce 6. Add "hemp", to include natural rope, burlap, marijuana, and hashish 7. Add "protein" 8. Add "buckwheat" 9. Add "cassava", to include taro and yam, and other starchy roots (not tubers) 10. Add "sorghum" 11. Add "magenta" and "cyan" as the missing two subtractive primary colors 12. Change the keyword of "gismu" from "primitive" to "root word" 13. Add "North America", the continent, as distinct from "merko", referring to the U.S. 14. Add "South America", the continent, as distinct from "xispo", referring to Latin America 15. Add "Antarctica" The following proposals were added with considerable debate and discussion: 1. Add "glimmering" to cover the concepts of morning and evening twilight 2. Define "morning" and "evening" symmetrically a. The specific symmetry required much debate; consensus was finally built around a culture-dependent definition, wherein morning is the time between sleep and work, and evening is the time between work and sleep, according to the cultural norm. In a tanru this could be modified to a personal norm. 3. In a discussion of "decrease" as an opposite of "increase", initial sentiment was only weakly for adding it a. It was noticed that the existing place structure of increase was transitive; it was proposed that by changing the place structure to the intransitive "x1 is increased in property x2 by amount x3", an opposite gismu for "decrease" would be bette r justified. Without the change, the semantic difference from "adjust" and "add" was felt to be too small. b. The vote to add "decrease" in parallel to the new meaning of "increase" was approved. 2. It was decided to change the keywords for "tanru" and "lujvo". 3. The familial relationships never quite seem to satisfy. It was agreed to add "sire" and "dam" to the definitions of "patfu" and "mamta" (no vote necessary since place structure change). Later it was suggested that we retain some unsatisfactory holes and combinations, which are of uncertain importance. The fact that American culture is shifting away from traditional family structures makes it unlikely that we (who are all Americans) can decide on a culturally neutral solution. The choices are then to be maximally inclusive of the possible relationships, or to pare the list in ways that ignore American sensibilities. The general preference seems to be for the former. Thus, we can make the following matrix: Gender-neutral Male Female Gender-neutral but but genetic not-necessarily-genetic 1. panzi bersa tixnu se rirni 1a. verba 1b. cifnu 2. bruna mensi lunba 3. se panzi patfu mamta rirni ("rearer") 3a. se jbena "mother/father" But note that as currently defined "patfu" and "mamta" are defined biologically, whereas their counterparts (except "se jbena") need not be. The obvious suggestion is to make them non-biological. However, it can reasonably be argued that with animal br eeding and genetics, and in some less transitional cultures, the biological parents have a uniquely important role enough to be considered 'primitive'. If so, the tanru "mamta se panzi" and "patfu se panzi" may be too long to be satisfactory. They could be shortened by any of the options: a. Change "panzi" to be its inverse, making "se panzi" into offspring; b. Add a different gismu to be the inverse of "panzi"; c. Add two gismu to specifically represent the genetic relationships "sire" and "dam"; Other options are possible. Note also that "rirni" is not quite the same as "mother/father", so we may need another genderless general term here. There is also the question of the extended family, which we have long ignored. We can be very specific about "mother-mother", "father-sister", and other extended family relationships, but we cannot be general. This is a weakness in that most cul tures use general terms, and in American culture, the extended family relationships are getting so complex that specific terms will not suffice. For discussion purposes then, let us consider: a. "elder/ancestor" for family members of generations preceding the parents (including non-direct line, the relationship is more social/ethnic than biological). Gender would be added via tanru, as would explicit biological lineage (or a place cou ld be used for specifying lineage, with specific names used in alternation with properties of the lineage of relation). The conversion would give "descendant" as well as "grandkids" in the broadest sense. b. "aunt/uncle/godparent" for non-lineal (socio-ethnic) family members of the parental generation. The conversion would give "niece/nephew". c. "cousin" for non-immediate (socio-ethnic) family members of the same generation. The generalized family relationship is still expressed by "lanzu", which can be modified via tanru. Other: 1. Days of the week were discussed prior to the gismu baseline discussion, and it was decided to add color and continent based names as alternatives to the number based names that have been standard. In addition, the number based names will be s et to run from 0 to 7, with Sunday serving as both 0 and 7, depending on speaker preference/orientation. John Cowan expressed great skepticism that any alternate system would catch on. They seem too much like crackpot 'calendar reform' efforts, and isn't well supported in numerical date representations. He also noted that not all cultures have a 7-day week (which had been previously noted). The generic concept of a week is the time between successive market days, which ranges from 4 to 9 days in agrarian non-Western cultures. He thus suggested that "jeftu" add a place to indicate the culture. This requires no vote, since it is a place structure change. Results, updated 6/24/91, to reflect comments at and after LogFest gismu rafsi keyword clue synonyms bemro bem North American berti merko cicna cyan turquoise dinri daytime daylight dzena dze elder grandparent ancestor dzipo zip dzi zi'o Antarctican dzucipni famti aunt or uncle godparent jdika decrease reduce ketco ket tco South American Quechua kobli cabbage cole- cauli-, broccoli, kale, kraut lanbi protein albumin amino marna hemp marijuana jute, cannabis murse glimmering twilight, dawn, penumbra nimre mre citrus lime lemon, citric nukni nuk magenta fuchsin fuchsia rorci ror procreate engender, sire, dam, beget samcu cassava taro, manioc, tapioka, yam sorgu sog sorghum tamne cousin vrude vud vu'e virtue xruba xub buckwheat rhubarb sorrel grass rafsi changes needed for above changes dotco dot do'o German delete rafsi tco merli mel mei measure delete rafsi mre previously approved changes to baseline ckamu- less deleted, replaced by mleca mleca mec me'a less keyword changes mukti muk mu'i motive was purpose djedi ded dje dei full day was day gismu gim gi'u root word was primitive tanru phrase compound was metaphor lujvo luv jvo affix compound was cpd predicate some lujvo conventions to eliminate need for some cmavo rafsi (there may be exceptions, i.e. lujvo of the pattern that are not of the convention) cu'o preceded by number rafsi is probability rather than modification fi'u with number rafsi is interpreted as fraction rather than modification ka'e handled by kakne li'i suctylifry- in first position mu'e nunmulny- in first position pu'u nunprucy- in first position si'o suctysidby- in first position su'u sucty- in first position za'i nunzasty- in first position zu'o nunzukty- in first position summary of all proposed rafsi changes ( - after a rafsi means the rafsi was deassigned for reuse.) CVC CCV CVV cmavo/gismu ce'o ce'o co'e co'e fo'a- forca (retains for, fro) fo'a fo'a fo'e fo'e fo'i fo'i ke'e ke'e le'e le'e lo'e lo'e me'a mleca no'e no'e nu'o nu'o to'e to'e ve'e ve'e vu'e vrude za'o za'o ze'e ze'e ze'o ze'o zi'o dzipo zo'a zo'a zo'i zo'i dze dzena dzi dzipo mre nimre mre- merli tco ketco tco- dotco bem bemro biz bi'o or bi'i caz ca'a caz- cadzu (retains dzu) cel ce cez ce'i daz da'a daz- da (no remaining rafsi) dum du'u joz jo'e kep ke'e ket ketco kuz ku'a mec mleca mem mei mom moi nal na'e nal- na nar na nuk nukni pez pe'a (figurative lujvo - totally unpredictable place structure) piv pi'u piz pi puz pu'i ror rorci roz roi sog sorgu sog so'a soj so'e sop so'i (also has "so'i" added this one for series) sos so'o sot so'u vud vrude xub xruba zip dzipo ---- lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com