Return-Path: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 91 11:47:48 EDT From: "Arthur W. Protin Jr." (GC-ACCURATE) To: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com Subject: Re: biting the hand that feeds us? Message-Id: <9106181147.aa09946@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL> Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Tue Jun 18 15:49:30 1991 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!PICA.ARMY.MIL!protin Folks, Lojbab just posted as he says: > I respond, hopefully apolitically, to the first of his two repostings, > which argued the definition of 'society' that allows 'society' to have > needs. While I can not comment on the scope of the practice of the > tendency to personify any and every concept that is personifiable I am quite comfortable with it and do not feel that he adequately describes it. The corporate personality is quite distinct from the mass of corporate personnel. I consider Mr. Person to be very different from society, and while I believe I understand the concept (I liken it to Classes in OOPS (Comp.Sci.)), I find very few occasions where I would use it. I consider society to an organism whose personality is not some composite of the personalities of its component individuals so much as it is a model of the behaviour of society. The behaviour on the other hand is a rather simple composite, but it is possible for combined behaviour to be totally at odds with the combined thinking. Thus, the hunger of the individuals is not immediately relevant to ascribing hunger to society. Society's actions have to be the actions of a hungry organism for me to ascribe hunger to society. Thus I might view a society as being sated even though some individuals were dying of hunger. Similarly, a hive is not a mass of bees (or ants or ...). A very interesting reference to this concept is in one of the "parables" sections of Goedel, Escher, Bach, by Hoffsteader. I think it was called "A(u)nt Hillary". The only usage of the concept of Mr. Person that I am immediately aware of is in the arguments of the civil liberties activists. That each suspect apprehended is an instance of Mr. Person and because you are also such an instance, any treatment of that suspect is transitively a treatment of you. This argument of protecting Mr. Person is totally at odds with the arguments about protecting society. I hope I was sufficiently clear in this message thank you all, Arthur Protin Arthur Protin These are my personal views and do not reflect those of my boss or this installation.