From cbmvax!uunet!dino.ulowell.edu!gryphon Fri Aug 16 17:29:26 1991 Return-Path: Return-Path: id ; Fri, 16 Aug 91 15:03:12 EDT Message-Id: <9108161903.AA06803@dino> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 15:03:12 EDT From: cbmvax!uunet!dino.ulowell.edu!gryphon (Coranth) To: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com Subject: gismu questions/suggestions... Status: RO coi. rodo. "Wading through the gismu list, which I finally have really had time to do, I have found some annoying holes, and some redundancies. There are also some choices made by la lojbangirz. which I am curious about. First, some missing places: "smadi"/"sruma"/... 1 guesses/assumes/.... 2 is true (there's a whole group of related words), add [by clues/evidence... 3] "speni" 1 married 2 add [under law/custon/system 3] "panzi" 1 is offspring of mom 2 and dad 3 add [at time 4, place 5] eliminate "jbena" "citno" 1 is young add [, age 2] verba 1 is a child add [ of species 2] "fatci" 1 is an absolute fact - I don't understand this concept. "benji"/"muvdu"/"bevri" 1 xfers/moves/carries 2 to 3 from 4 via path 5 why have three different gismu for the same relation...? "notci" 1 is a message about 2 to 3 from 4 "xatra" 1 is a letter about 4 to 2 from 3 same relations, different ordering "bajra" 1 runs(/walks ?) to 2 from 3 via path 4 "klama" 1 goes to 2 from 3 via path 4 by means 5 these I can see as different iff "bajra" also means walk (by mean foot) "cliva" 1 goes from 2 via path 3 by means 4 they have to be coming to somewhere, which makes the relation the same at "klama" "prenu" 1 is a person add [of species/race/culture/planet 2] "nanmu"/"fetsi"/"nanla"/"nixli" these are (resp.) male/female adult, male/female child add [of species 2], pushing the childs' place [age 3] Personally, I think adding seperate gismu only to allow gender distinctions is a bad idea unless necessary ("mamta"/"patfu") In those cases where a distinction is necessary, a tanru or lujvo should be used fetre'a (female human - woman) nakre'a (male human - man) feipre (female person) nakpre (male person) feive'a (female child) nakve'a (male child - boy) feipa'i (female offspring - daughter) nakpa'i (male offspring - son) All these are examples of cases where a gismu has been given just to make the gender distinctions simpler to translate. BEGIN SOAPBOX A bridi is a RELATIONSHIP. There should not be seperate bridi for the same relationship. Gender distictions which do not affect the relationship should be left out by default, and expressed only if necessary. END SOAPBOX Another way to handle the problem is to add an additional place to "remna","prenu","verba","cifnu","tunba", etc. [gender .....] Freeing up many of the redundant gismu would also allow slightly more even distribution of rafsi for those which gismu which SHOULD get used more (the ones listed above). That's all I have to say at this point. Comments/criticisms/suggestions are welcome, either posted or personal. Flames to /dev/null." co'o rodo. mi'e korant.