Return-Path: Return-Path: (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA04856; Tue, 13 Aug 91 00:41:39 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 22:43 EDT From: cbmvax!snark.thyrsus.com!lojbab (Bob LeChevalier) To: conlang@buphy.bu.edu Subject: Kennaway on speaker's intent Sender: cowan Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Tue Aug 13 14:49:24 1991 X-From-Space-Address: snark!cbmvax!snark!lojbab Kennaway: >the speaker's meaning is, fundamentally, whatever the speaker intends to mean This is fundamentally wrong in an unambiguous language. The actual words used should be interpreted based on their grammar. If interpolation is permitted, then a fundamental goal of Loglan, to be able to speak nonsense and have it understood AS SPOKEN is defeated. I note that this is reiterated in one article of the new Lognet (a publication of the Loglan Institute) that arrived just today, so this is true of both versions of Loglan, Lojban and the Institute language. In communication it is the speakers obligation to put things in terms that the listener will understand, not the listeners job to figure out what the speaker intended. After all, context may be know to the speaker that isi not known to the listener. The speaker must provide sufficient context to make his meaning plain. In an idiomatic request like "Do you know what time it is?", there is an unspoken and implied question. But the implication of that question is an English idiom - aculturally-based association. If Loglan is to be culturally neutral, it must avoid copying English idioms (especially English idioms because the language was invented by English speakers). It is especially bad when the idiomatic phrase has an obvious non-nonsense meaning. How, if Richard is correct, would you ask the real question "Do you know what time it is?" The propoer answer in both versions of the language is to either ask "what is the time?" or "Tell me the time", which in Lojban can be attitudinally softened with ".e'o" into a request instead of a command imperative. Yes the listener can answer anything he wants to any question or statement, as in: Do you know what time it is? George. But this is not communicative. It is true that if the listener responds to the yes/no question with the time that this is an implicit statement that he knows the time - so it is an answer. ---- lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com