Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 18:24:00 -0700
From: cbmvax!uunet!pyrps5.pyramid.com!fschulz (F. Schulz)
Message-Id: <9108080124.AA15115@pyrps5.pyramid.com>
To: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com
Status: RO

Subject: translate please

A lojban sentence appears in the following text without word by word
translation.

> Semantic:  We all know that {ke'a} in a subordinate clause refers back to
> the sumti being described/restricted.  What if you have nested subordinate
> clauses and want to use the outer {ke'a} in the inner clause?  I mean like:
> 
> mi catlu le nanmu poi do pu tavla le ninmu poi [ke'a] prami ke'a
> 
> The first {ke'a} might be ellipsizable, and maybe this isn't the best

What I find useful is to have each word looked up, rather than
have the sentence as a whole translated. It also helps a lot when
the corresponding words on the sentence and the translated sentence
line up so the eye can easily pair up words.

This translation style makes these mail messages much easier to
read for new people on the list. It makes the difference between
an article being an extremely valuable information source
and being total junk.

The translations are only needed for very short pieces of lojban
text, say less than 5 sentences. Longer text is too overwhelming
and I immediately delete the message. Shorter lojban is saved,
edited to remove junk, and reviewed periodically.

This mailing list could be an extremely effective teaching
tool if minor efforts to help newcomers are made. Most of
my lojban learning has been from reading this mailing list.
Even with no translation, from word morphology I learn two
new cmavo exist, poi and ke'a which come in pairs and
structures of them nest.

You on this mailing list can be a major force in spreading
lojban by catering more to new people. I believe lojban
needs to spread to survive and this list can aid lojban
growth. Adding translations adds perhaps 5% to text length,
takes 5% longer to write. You all get a big payback from
this small investment. Please assume this group is growing
and that people are eagerly reading those word translations!

In reply to retorts that I should get the tutorial ( RTFM )
I answer that I have ordered some material which has not
arrived. Even with written material available, not having
to look words up is a big time saver. Further paper tends to
get lost and not be available when I need it. I prefer not
dealing with paper unless I am away from a terminal.

I have tried sending mail to the planned languages server
and the mail address
	uunet!langserv@ivory.cc.columbia.edu
is not known. Uunet sends the mail to another machine which
does not recognize the address. Any suggestions?

	Frank Schulz ( fschulz@pyramid.com )