Return-Path: Message-Id: <9109032313.AA10705@relay1.UU.NET> Date: Tue Sep 3 21:30:45 1991 Reply-To: Lojban list Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Dave Twery's Journal X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu, cellar!marquidf@uunet.uu.net To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann , Bob LeChevalier Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Tue Sep 3 21:30:45 1991 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Well, I've been sitting on this long enough; here are my editings to Dave Twery's journal of waybackwhen. Many of the corrections are taken from the critiques written after Twery's posting by me and Nick and others. CUVMB's mailing ability seems to be down today, and I don't seem to be able to reach Twery at all lately, but what the hell. So as to keep things small, I'll intersperse comments between sentences. { Journal, by Dave Twery, edited by Mark Shoulson } ni'oni'o detri li pasosopa pi'e ze pi'e reno (newnew topic) (something) dated 1991;7;20 Hope this is an okay way to do the dating. .i ca la xanict. ge'u .e vi le ckafyzda beme'e zo .kairos. during the 6-night and at the coffeenest named "kairos" This is pretty ugly and likely wrong. There are probably more specific ways to do this, but I couldn't find a nice one that remained vague and elliptic. ni'o mi na ca xamgu lifri .ije mi na pante fi la'edi'u (new) I not now good experience. And I not complain about the-previous Probably need some UI here. Twery had some, which I seem to have lost. His idiomatic English: I don't feel good tonight but I'm not going to bitch about it." I think this works, but I'm not real sure about the xamgu lifri part. Upon reflection, it really should be zabna, not xamgu .i glare je jaurvacri hot and water-air "it's hot and humid." straight from the original. Just fine. .i su'e pare remna cavi zvati at-most 12 humans here-now are-at I like this a little better than the original, su'e pare remna cu ca zvati ti. "ti" is just too broad. .i .ui mi ca kakne lenu lojbo cusku (happy!) I now am-able the-event-of Lojbanically expressing A bit better idiomatically than the original. (BTW, rather than quoting the original all the time, if you've lost it, write and I'll send or repost). ni'o la lusis. ce la marias. tavla simxu (new) Lucy unordered-set-conjunction Maria talkingly are-mutual. Nick's translation. Strange in English, but nice in Lojban, I think. .i la lusis. pa'a ca citka le xilkemtitna'a [ noi se cmene zoi .tik. doughnut .tik. bau le glibau ] Lucy also now eats the wheel-(sweet-bread) which-is-incidentally named "doughnut" in-language English-language Not sure if barcketed phrase belongs, hence the brackets. Nick cleaned up the lujvo. I had favored "zo .donyt." but it *is* a foreign quote, so deserves proper "zoi"-ing. .i piro mi'a masno zukte All-of me/us-and-others slowly move Twery had a "humorous" sentence (marked with "zo'o") that I really didn't understand, so I just did a straight translation. ni'o lo nanmu pu cusku ledu'u zoi .tik. mocha .tik. se krasi le banxaua,ii (new) a man earlier expressed the-sentence "mocha" is-originated-by language-hawaii More or less what Twery had, with a cmavo change here and there and the grammar corrected. .i mi pupu na djuno le sego'i I earlier-earlier not know the second-arg-to-previous-sentence Changed tense here (from "pu"), and use "le sego'i" instead of la'edi'u, since the latter would refer to whole previous sentence, which is not what I want. I don't think I need a "la'e" here. Do I? .i mi pupu krici ledu'u le banrtali krasi zoi .tik. mocha .tik. I earlier-earlier believe the-sentence the language-italy is-origin-of "mocha" Changed tense, and used krici instead of pensi, since belief is what we want, not being pensive. Also fixed the le'avla construction, and restated the word rather than using an unassigned "ke'o". I didn't think it was worth assigning or using "ru" or some such. ni'o la djysten. goi ko'a ca co'a tavla fi la sr,gau,uen. (new) Justin hereafter-called he1 now starts talking about Sir Gawain almost straight from original. All right, except for spelling of "Gawain" in original translation. Only change was transliteration of the name. Perhaps tavla is the wrong gismu, maybe casnu would be better? Probably okay as it stands. .ije ko'a teke minde cusku lu ko sisti li'u la o,uyn. And he1 is-(commandingly-expressed-to) "You(imper!) stop" by Owen Changed gismu from tavla, which really wasn't right. Could have done minde te cusku, matter of choice. Anyone with a better tanru? ni'o la stiv. jo'u la bet. puze'a klama vi (new) Steve in-common-with Beth earlier medium-interval come to here Changed conjunction. I had originally changed it to "joi", but I think "jo'u" is better: they didn't come in as a team, such that the job couldn'y be said to belong uniquely to either of them, nor did they both just happen to come in; I think "jo'u" is good. any corrections? Also changed "ti" at end to "vi" Is this okay? .i la stiv. goi ko'e pu djica lenu ko'e tavla la tcip. leko'e zgike sanze'a Steve hereafter-called he2 earlier desired the-event: he2 talk-to Chip about he2's music sound-increaser Changed the pro-sumti to avoid collision with earlier def of ko'a. Not necessary, but I think it's good. Otherwise the same. Left the tanru/lujvo for amplifier. .i seba'i le sego'i ko'e pu lebna leko'e sanze'a la kairos. Instead-of the-second-arg-of-the-last, he2 earilier take he2's sound-increaser from Kairos. Left the same, except to change la'edi'u to le sego'i. I think this use of seba'i is okay. Oh, dear. I just realized: Does this conflict with using BAI words attached to the sentence link? ni'o la .endis. jo'u leri prami noi xunre se kerfa cu klama (new) Andy in-common-with the-last's lover who-incidentally: is redly be-haired comes. Again used jo'u. original used poi and also ponse [lo] xunre kerfa. This isn't a good use of ponse, and this way is much neater. Also changed culturally-charged xlipe'o to prami, just be sure not to bring cultural weightings into that one. Actually, just leaving the klama at the end like that leaves us in doubt as to whether they've just left or just arrived. Twery's translation gives the latter. We need another arg (like la kairos.) at the end to clarify in the Lojban version. ni'o la patsis. klain. cu lu'a sanga la'elu nu cadzu ba le midycte li'u vecu'u le zgidribra (new) Patsy Cline (loosely) sings the-referent-of "event-of walking after mid-night" in-media music-ribbon-apparatus. Using lu'a to indicate that we're not being literal here. I don't think pe'o is necessary. Using "la'e"-convention for song titles. Using vecu'u where original had ra'i, implying that Patsy was standing in the tape player. Left lujvo for tape player intact. .i la patsis. na'o sanga loi driselsanga poi se cmene zoi .tik. blues .tik. bau le glibau Patsy habitually sings the-mass-of sad-things-sung which are-named "blues" in-language English-language Original had misused relative clause. Otherwise the same. ni'o cabna lenu la endis jo'u leri prami cu cliva (new) now-is-when the-event: Andy in-common-with the-last's lover leave See above for jo'u and prami. added nu. Should it be fa lenu (as orig)? Is this right for cabna? .i zo co'o se cusku "partings" are-expressed Orig. left out "zo", which is necessary. ni'o pa drata xunkrexli ca zvati (new) one other red-hair-girl now is-at Same as original. I don't like xunkrexli; it's misusing nixli. In English, we can get away with calling females of the age in question "girls" (in some circles), but Lojban is less forgiving. Even tho nixli is culturally defined, I still think of a red-haired seven-year-old. I'd use ninmu or something. .i mi krici ledu'u loi nixli cu nelci le xunre kerfa I believe the-sentence: the-mass-of girls likes red hair Changed pensi to krici, as above. Still don't like nixli, but left it in anyway (you want professional editing? get a professional). Orig had final tanru backwards. Maybe lei xunre kerfa would be better? ni'o leli'i ciska cu sutra sidju lepu'u mi cilre la lojban. (new) the experience-of: writing quickly-helps the-processof: I learn Lojban. Orig had sesi'u instead of lepu'u. Apart from s/l type, arguably good. Also had le mi mu'e cilre lojbo, which really doesn't cut it. Is this good use for lepu'u? .i mi ji'a pu lifri le li'i go'i ca lepu'u mi cilre le banrsperanto I (additionally!) earlier experience the experience-of: the-last-sentence during the-process: I learn language-Esperanto. This is definitely wrong. Even beyond any other mistakes, it means that writing helped him learn Lojban when he was learning Esperanto. Maybe I should have just ellipsized it; I think the orig. did. .i mi zabna cilre tai le se lifri I favorably-learn by-method the-experienced. I'm not wild about this one either, but it seems okay. ni'o mi bazi tcidu zo'e pe bau la lojban. lemi lojbo kasrcku (new) I later-shortly read (something) which is-in-language Lojban from my Lojban assembled-book. Fixed the grammar. Left tanru/lujvo. .i co'o Bye. fa'o End-of-text ------- OK, there you have it. All ready for the next round. Have fun. ~mark