From cbmvax!uunet!dsinc.dsi.com!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Wed Oct 2 21:10:54 1991 Return-Path: Date: Wed Oct 2 21:10:54 1991 Message-Id: <9110021745.AA15858@relay1.UU.NET> Reply-To: cbmvax!uunet!pucc.princeton.edu!bob Sender: Lojban list Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was bob@GRACKLE.STOCKBRIDGE.MA.US From: cbmvax!uunet!pucc.princeton.edu!bob Subject: "Only" and discursives X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Ken Taylor , List Reader In-Reply-To: "61510::GILSON"'s message of Wed, 2 Oct 1991 08:51:00 EDT <9110021255.AA26490@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Status: RO Richard Kennaway writes: >"Only" seems to me to be a three-place predicate masquerading as a >two-place one. "X is only Y" means "X is Y and, perhaps contrary to >expectation, is not Z", where Z is left unstated. >The same applies to the near-synonyms "really", "essentially", "nothing >but", "basically", "at bottom", "simply", "purely", "no more than" etc. Very true, I think. But in lojban, `only' does not need to be a gismu. Instead, I think all the meanings of `only' are better expressed using the .enai lo drata and similar constructions that Nick S. Nicholas, nsn@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au, suggested. Expressing `only' in these manners looks to me like a good topic for the text book. The same notion partially applies to "really", "essentially", "nothing but", "basically", "at bottom", "simply", "purely", "no more than" etc. as Kennaway says. However, some of these words are discursive attitudinals (Gakk! When do the attidutinals and other cmavo come on line on listserv so I don't have to go to the other room to find a physical copy of the list? :-( ) For example, "basically", and "at bottom" may be expressed by the discursive: to'u in short Perhaps "really" is expressed by je'u truthfully or a combination of je'u to'u In many cases, "essentially" and "simply" may be expressed by sa'u straight-forward discourse, simply speaking Also, the leading preposition phrases in the preceding sentences may be expressed: mu'a For example, e'u Perhaps However, the phrase, `In many cases,' is not expressed directly by any of the discursives. The phrase has several meanings. One is to make a statement with a discursive meaning similar to ke'u And again A second meaning is to indicate that the statement is imprecise, as with: lu'a Loosely speaking A third meaning is to limit the application of the predicate `may be expressed by' and is part of the predicate. In this case, `In many cases' is equivalent to `often' and we might translate the English predication In many cases, .... may be expressed by ... as ... often is a symbol/sign for .... The lojban for this is cafne sinxa converted into lujvo like this: cafnysinxa cafsni Here are the words: cafne often x1 is often/frequent in doing/being x2 compared to standard x3 sinxa sign x1 is a sign/symbol of x2 to x3 meaning/urging x4 Hmmm.....ua.ui.....perhaps some of the `only' expressions are discursives, too. For example, the usual interpretation of I only kissed Sandra on her nose. is, I think, lu'anai mi cinba la sandras leri nazbi Precisely speaking, I kissed Sandra on her nose. But I prefer the .enai lo drata and similar constructions for the subtle variations on the use of `only'. Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu Rattlesnake Mountain Road (413) 298-4725 or (617) 253-8568 or Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA (617) 876-3296 (for messages)