From cbmvax!uunet!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Thu Oct 17 18:07:13 1991 Return-Path: Date: Thu Oct 17 18:07:13 1991 Message-Id: <9110171734.AA06478@relay1.UU.NET> Reply-To: David Cortesi Sender: Lojban list From: David Cortesi Subject: Lack of geometry X-To: Lojban mailing list To: John Cowan , Ken Taylor Status: RO I note that Lojban gismu are seriously lacking in terms for basic mathematics and geometry. I don't see any easy way to build tanru or lujvo for terms that are really fundamental not only to elementary math but to astronomy, navigation, common surveying and other fields. English Lojban polygons triangle ? square kurfa rectangle ? rhombus ? polygon ? conic curves circle cukla tarmi -- cukla is "circular", tarmi is "shape" ellipse ? hyperbola ? parabola ? curve kruvi points and angles axis jendu?? radius ? diameter ? degree ? radian radno angle jganu sine sinso tangent tanjo cosine ? temperature kelvin kelvo celcius ? fahrenheit ? degree ? There is clearly a shortage of words for measurable quantities. We have lots of ways to say numbers, but only kelvo and radno for units! Granted, some of these can be made up by borrowings (though making them is beyond me). But I think some repairs could be still be made in the gismu list. Proposition 1: take back kurfa (square) and make it "polygon with x2 sides and x3 included angles" Note that x2 and/or x3 could presumably be a set, for the cases where the polygon is not regular and you really wanted to describe it exactly. This gives you triangles, squares, pentagons, hexagons, etc very simply; any n-sided figure in casual speech; and accurate description of any n-gon with some effort. Proposition 2: take back the adjective cukla and make it "closed curve with major axis x2, minor axis x3" With the assumption that when x3==zo'e it is the same as x2, i.e. a circle. This gives easy circles and ellipses with very little effort. (x3 could be one of the generic numbers like "enough" if you didn't want to be precise.) cukla could still mean "round" as a modifier; ellipses are "round." Proposition 3: temperatures in Celsius are universal in all cultures except the merkoids. Yes, Kelvin is essentially the same, but it is not convenient to have to mentally add 473 (is it?) before stating the current temperature as it comes over the TV news (in Europe and elsewhere). We really need a gismu for degrees-Celsius. Proposition 4: Navigators, astronomers, surveyors, and just about everybody except geometry teachers measure angles in degrees, not radians. Yes you can convert between them but it is NOT something you can do in your head when translating; and you risk error and mis-translation by doing so. We really need a gismu for angular degrees. Proposition 5: it is nice to have sinso and tanjo but it makes no sense to have them and not have cosines! Either replace all three with le'avla or else add a gismu for cosine.