Return-Path: Message-Id: <9110111745.AA13916@relay1.UU.NET> Date: Fri Oct 11 14:06:12 1991 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: L.A. group's aphorisms and other activities X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: PETE THOMAS's message of Fri, 11 Oct 1991 08:28:00 PDT Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Oct 11 14:06:12 1991 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1991 08:28:00 PDT From: PETE THOMAS X-To: lojban ci mi'a fanva lo tanju'a la lojban. le gicbau the three of us (me and unspecified others) translate aphorisms (tanru sentences) to Lojban from English (language of English culture/nationality). How do I put this in the past tense, and would usage accept gicbau as English, or should we just say "la englis."? Looks okay. I'll note, though, that if you're speaking for the people involved, you might want to use "ci mi" (three of us), recalling that "mi" needn't be singular. "mi'a" draws a distinction between the person speaking and the referent. Not that you're wrong, this is a matter of style and taste. Also note that "ci mi'a" means "three of: me/us and others". Not quite "we three". I'm not sure how to get that. You don't really need tense in this case, but if you want you can do stuff like "ci mi'a pu fanva ..." (earlier translated) or "ci mi'a ba'o fanva" (perfective translated), or even specify the exact time with "ca" (during, while). As to English. There are various ways. Your method here is correct, but lacks parallelism. You might use "le lobybau" and "le gicbau" (or jbobau or glibau or whatever), using the gismu "lojbo" for "Lojbanic culture/nationality" which has rafsi "jbo" and "lob". Alternatively, you can use "la lojban." and "la .englic." or use "translated names" for both: "la lojban." and "la gliban" (or "gicyban." or whatever). Our first aphorism is our translation of "the early bird gets the worm": su'a relo liryrai cipni pu'i kavbu lo curnu generalizing: all superlatively-early birds can and do catch worms Typo: you meant "ro" (all) instead of "re" (two). Oops. The "lo" after "ro" is redundant, but permissible. I'm pretty sure that you can elide the "cu" here, as you have done. Other alternatives include using "piro loi clira cipni ..." (all-of the-mass-of early birds) (I don't see that the "rai" is needed here, but that's just me), or even leave out "piro" altogether and make your claim about the mass of birds as a whole. Or you can use the "typical" articles, giving "lo'e clira cipni pu'i kavbu lo'e curnu" (the-typical early-bird can-and-does catch the-typical worm). Whatever works for you. I'm sure lojbab can come up with even more exotic constructions. Second: number ten from the list of untranslated aphorism in JL15: "not to decide is to decide" lo'i nu na jdice cu nu jdice the event of not deciding, is a decision This one I have a little trouble with, unless it's just a typo. "lo'i" means "the set of", so you're saying that the set of events of not deciding is an even of deciding. I think that misses it. I'd change that to "lo'e" or "lo", and you're in business. Otherwise, it's great (good usage of "nu" in a place other than "le nu"). Third: number thirty-one: "there is nothing permanent except change" roda vitno .i jo da du loi nu cenba all things are permanent if-and-only-if they are events of change This is the first one I can actually disagree with. If you look at your English, you can see that it doesn't say the same thing as the original. You mean to say not that *everything* is permanent only-of it's an even of change, but that *only those things* which are events of change are permanent. Thus, we can have "da vitno jo nu cenba" (something1 is permanent-iff-an-event-of-change), or "da vitno nagi'a nu cenba" (just about the same thing, but with the selbri joined as bridi-tails, not in a tanru), or, in the style of Bob's Occam's Razor, "roda poi vitno cu nu cenba" (all something1's which-are-permanent are events of change), and a million variants on this theme. ~mark