Return-Path: Message-Id: <9110090436.AA17262@relay1.UU.NET> Date: Wed Oct 9 03:31:56 1991 Reply-To: cbmvax!uunet!pucc.princeton.edu!nsn Sender: Lojban list From: cbmvax!uunet!pucc.princeton.edu!nsn Subject: Another translation X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu X-Cc: nsn@ee.mu.oz.au To: John Cowan , Ken Taylor , List Reader Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Wed Oct 9 03:31:56 1991 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Not that I could be bothered entering the Loglan/Logjam war, but I was reading a translation into Loglan from 1977, and it sucked. Thus I tried it instead. Here's some text for y'all. And it's parsed, which gave me an unpleasant surprise. More on that later. Original. Lancelot Law Whyte, p. 19 of Essay on Atomism, 1961. Quantitative physics [is a] cumulative, self-correcting, systematically pursued interplay of ideas and measurements, expressed in a mathematical theory. Physics is thus the continuous critique of quantitative laws. Theory confronts experiment, and both sides are a mixture of obscurity and clarity. On the one hand, theory uses familiar obscure ideas which suggest a precise quantitative calculus; while on the other, experiment uses obscure objects (material apparatus, sources of energy, etc.) whose laws are not yet fully understood, to obtain precise quantitative measurements. Unconscious assumptions are hidden in the obscure ideas which have suggested the calculus, and unknown structures and processes are exploited in the experimental situation which provides the numerical results. [...] Thus the interplay of ideas and measurements improves and extends both, by drawing previously concealed features out of the obscure realms into the clarity of mathematics and of measurement. J.R. Atkins' line-by-line of Loglan, The Loglanist, April 1977: The-mass-of quantitative physics is an-event-of the-mass-off ideas tenselessly interacting-with the-mass-of measure-numbers comma which-is additively hyphen growing and self hyphen correct-makihg and systematically hyphen passive hunt-gone-after and passive voice-done-by someone-x as the-mass-of mathematical clear-make-systems. And-therefore-it-follows-that the-mass-of physics is-a continuous event-of bad-saying-about the-mass-f quantitative all-truths. And the-mass-of theories tenselessly oppose-do-says the-mass-of-events-of truth- -test-doing; and the two part-groups are passive mixtures-of the-mass-of- -properties-of clarity (and) the-mass-of-properties-of un-clarity. And on the first side comma the-mass-of theories tenselessly uses the-mass-of un-new type-of unclear ideas which suggest the-mass-of number-perfect and quantitative entail-discover-sign-system. And on the second comma the-mass-of-events-of experimenting tenselessly uses the-mass-of unclear physical-things open-paren- -thesis the-mass-of material apparatus and the-mass-of sources of the-mass-of- -properties-of energy and so-forth close-parenthesis such-that the-mass-of laws about x were-and-are-now not completely passive comprehended comma (in order to) the-mass-of-events-of getting the-mass-of precise type-of quantitative measurements. And the-mass-of not conscious passive truth-picture-thoughts are passive secretly-placed-by something-x in the unclear ideas which have suggested calculus; and the-mass-of not passive known structures and processes are passive win-place-seized in-and-at the-mass-of experimental causal-condition- -sets which stores-give the-mass-of numerical passive entail-discovered. Therefore the-event-of the-mass-of ideas tenselessly interacting-with the-mass- -of measurements comma tenselessly better-makes and stretch-makes comma x and y comma because-of the-event-of in-pulling the-mass-of-formerly passive hidden passive qualities from the-mass-of unclear passive kinged-by into the-mass-of- -properties-which the-mass-of mathematics and-jointly the-mass-of-the-events-of measuring have-by-being clear. Even excusing the tordidness of a word-by-worder, the word compounds here make me wonder what drugs were available in the seventies. Here's my lojban text: le klani rarlanlyske cu ve jmina ce sevdrari'a ce se sisku betai lo ciste be'o nu loi sidbo kuce loi te merli cu mitfra kei gi'e se cusku fo lo cmaci se penti'i .i le rarlanlyske ru'i ja'o nu pajni loi klani rarfla .i lo sidbo cu se karbi fi lonu cipra .ije ri .e ra cu se ckaji loika klina joi na'e klina se jimpe .izu'u lo sidbo cu pliri'a fi loi se tcaju'o ke na'e se klijmi se pensi noi penri'a fi lo satci ke klani cmacrkalkulo .izu'unai lonu cipra cu pliri'a fi loi na'e se klijmi dacti nemu'u loi marji cabra .e loi krasi be lo nejni be'o .e loi drata zi'enoi lei flalu be tu'ake'a punaijecanai se jimpe ji'e noda ku'o mu'i lenu junri'a fi loi satci ke klani te minre .i loi na'e se sanji se pruru'a cu na'e se facki pagbu lei na'e se klijmi sidbo poi jairi'a finti le cmacrkalkulo .ije loi na'e se djuno stura ce pruce cu se pilno va'o lenu cipra kei tcini noi junri'a fi loi namcu jalge .iseni'ibo lenu lei sidbo kuce lei te minre cu mitfra cu xagri'a je zmari'a ri .e ra tai lenu sucri'a fi loi pu na'e se sanji tcila be lo na'e se klijmi fe lo se klijmi pe lo cmaci zi'epe loka te minre and my (somewhat freer) translinguification (metaglwttish in Greek): the quantity nature-analyse-science is-a result-of-adding 'n' self-correct- -making and (sought in manner: a system) event: (ideas FRIGGING-TERMINATOR-KU and measured-as-things mutually-react) and is expressed in form: a maths think-proposed-thing. The physics is continuously (I conlcude) an-event: someone judges quantity nature-laws. An idea is compared with an-event: testing. And this and that one are characterised by the qualities: clear 'n' unclear being understood. A: An idea makes someone use custom-known (not clear- -understood thought-things) which make someone think of an exact (quantity maths-calculus). B: An event: (testing) makes someone use not clear-understood objects (eg. (material apparatus and sources (of energy) and other things)) such that (the laws about something to do with the objects weren't&aren't understood with limit: nothing) with motive the event: (make someone know exact (quantity measurements). The not aware-of-them previous-supposed-things are not discovered parts of the not clear-understood ideas which were-the-cause-of inventing calculus. And the not known structures 'n' processes are used in environment: a (event: testing) situation which makes someone know number results. It-follows: the event: (ideas ANOTHER-FRIGGING-TERMINATOR 'n' measuremets mutual interact good-ifies and more-ifies them in manner: make the past not aware-of details (of the not clear-understood) abstracted into the clear-understood-thing to do with maths and to do with the quality of being a measurement. That FRIGGING TERMINATOR is there because, although I understand {lo sidbo ce loi te minre} as two sumti and a link, the parser won't because it's LALR(1). I respectfully submit that I don't give a shit what the parser accepts, but I don't make the rules. *sigh*. Comments requested. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Nick S. Nicholas, "Rode like foam on the river of pity Depts. of CompSci & ElecEng, Turned its tide to strength University of Melbourne, Australia. Healed the hole that ripped in living" nsn@{munagin.ee|mullauna.cs}.mu.oz.au - S. Vega, Book Of Dreams _______________________________________________________________________________ Nick Nicholas, Melbourne Uni, Australia. nsn@{munagin.ee|mullauna.cs}.mu.oz.au "Despite millions of dollars of research, death continues to be this nation's number one killer" - Henry Gibson, Kentucky Fried Movie _______________________________________________________________________________